10.67, Tier 11 & Other Things....

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[wachna]

After all the stuff we wrote today about GSS drop rate I was thinking and IMO there should be a fix regarding GSS drops when 10.67 or at least when T11 starts.

It would be wrong to let people farm T10 for months, many months, many many months just to be able to get into the next zones.

Maybe the PB 2.0 quest idea could help out. Or maybe increase the numbers: 1 GSS for another 1000, 2 GSS for another 2000, 5 GSS for 5000. something like that.

For now the drop rate is ok. Hard for some players, but you cannot male everyone happy. But for the future the current drop rate would not be good anymore ..

Mongo

[Draca]

    Tier 10.67 should result in GSS's more freely entering the server economy at reasonable trade values. Drop rate is substantial enough that people clearing through it should ultimately end up with too many to use for themselves. This isn't a change made as a result of recent comments, my plans always included this for 10.67, so that should help some.

    Here's where it gets tricky, and requires some understanding from players as to the difficulties I face when making changes. As a GM/Developer, and in particular on EZ Server, where the grind is the game, I feel an obligation to not water down, or make certain content easier for people doing it now, than it was for people doing it before. GSS's present a special problem, as they (and UA) was added seemingly as a bit of a stopgap measure to give people who'd finished T10 something to continue working towards, ostensibly while new content was being created. This didn't happen nearly as quickly as intended, and thus farming larger and larger groups into full UA has been a point of pride for many, as most people were aware of how difficult UA was to acquire.

    Instead of raising the drop rates in Sunderock, I've given the ability (I feel) for the server economy to provide more GSS's to people who have a hard time getting them in Sunderock, while still giving people a real understanding of how difficult it would have been to only gear up UA with only the drops in Sunderock, by leaving the drop there unchanged. If this doesn't end up being the case, than I have no problem revisiting this issue once 10.67 has a bit of time to affect the economy.

    Side note, I have no plans to require UA for T11. That being said, the next levels of the Ring of the Ages will only be available through questing in 10.67, so people will ultimately likely want to work through it, if they don't want to get into it before T11 releases.

-Draca

[wachna]

You have to keep in mind that there are many types of players.
Many will be ready for VP when it goes live. (6+ toons with min. 4/5 UA parts)
Some will be semi ready (1-6 toons)
And some will have no toons ready for VP

For group a and b it is good that GSS drop more often in VP because they can farm them there instead of T10. But for group c which will be a big group of players, they will still have to grind many months in T10.

Depending on play style and playtime this can take forever and will be frustrating as hell. Many will quit at that point for sure.

I dont have a problem with grinding the same zone or boss or camp over and over again. I am not in a hurry to get thru all the content in a few weeks but I think there are many players who are not like me. Many play in their free time and dont want to waste it in T10.

Dont get me wrong. I am against increasing the drop rate but I would like to see an additional way to get some GSS.

[Dokplayer2]

wachna's logic is sound. I hear what you are saying Draca, GSS will be more readily tradeable by players who have progressed through VP but I am unsure whether it will be enough to provide players who have 1 or 2 toons set for VP enough to flag other characters to allow for further progress into VP and people will quit due to the t10 gss grind frustration.

Now I think eventually ST and VP can be considered bonus zones rather than t10.5 and t10.67 kind of like TOFS where they give you some nice bonus loot that will certainly improve your characters but is not required to progress up the tiers. Then instead of having to spend a significant time grinding GSS for VP and ST entrance players can move on to t11 after having obtained epic 10 aug and full set of gear assuming those will be requirements for entrance into t11 and focus on t11 which I assume will drop GSS as well and allow players to zone into ST/VP when ready.

I think t10 grind will be a lot less painful when the ae ramps are addressed and players can use more than just warrior especially those who are just starting t10. I know this is something draca you are aware of and already noted will be addressed. In my opinion I still think having another method to obtain GSS would not be a bad idea like the 1k or 2k PB quest addition but thats just my opinion.

[Draca]

So forget where we currently are, and think a year from now. Player progresses through tiers as usual, gets the normal help from people, starts grinding through Tier 10. Reads wiki, sees stuff about Ultimate Armor, and starts to see hammer pieces drop, as well as possibly a few GSS's as they progress through Sunderock, and a few they've traded for. Once they've completed Tier 10, they realize they don't have enough GSS's to move a group into ST or VP, so they go into T11, and start working through that zone. It's slow going, as they aren't optimally geared for it, but it's doable. GSS's drop much more commonly in T11 than anywhere before it, so they can begin to back gear into UA, and eventually get into ST and VP, and get what they want from there, then continue T11. Players get uninterrupted progression, yet still get the feeling of how difficult full UA would have been, when ole' grandpa Raygan starts telling them tales of days gone by..

I realize that right now it seems like GSS's are holding people back, and they are, but I assure you they will get considerably more common quite soon.

[Sarthin]

My thoughts on the tier progression in terms of GSS requirement is that it should never have been a requirement at all. It was added as a bonus to keep people interested in playing in Sunderock when all else was done. The reward was obviously worth it, at least to equip a tank or three with it thus making tanking easier and zone pulls possible in T10 as well as other zones.

Originally UA was never meant to be a requirement for future zones. It was just unthinkable that people would have the time and dedication to equip all their toons with the armor. Then again, no one thought the players would be stuck with T10 for so many years.

I want to play with all my 27 toons, but I only have 5 toons in full UA.. all warriors   I wouldn't dream to rot for another thousand hours in T10 trying to gear them for bridges between T10 and T11. I'd rather just wait until T11 is released as I hear it won't have a UA req.

Plagueborn quest + Epic should have been the flag req. in T10 if I was to decide what was resonable. If new tiers had been released earlier, this would most likely also be the req. flags needed imo.

However, the dilemma with that is that you basically piss on the players that stuck with T10 for all these years farming GSS's. I am pretty sure this GSS requirement will prevent me from wanting to come back until T11 is released. I kinda quit because I was tired of spending time in T10 with no new content on the horizon. How ironic that I need to continue there now if I want to return pre-T11 Even with all my triple instances and ZP sticks, this would take ages and more boring than counting sheeps.

Even though a selected few decided to stick with it for many years(Why??!! hehe), I don't think that makes it resonable with the GSS requirement given it's current drop rate percentage for the general population of players, both growing and returning players. Good thing I am biased and not making the decisions  

The question some people should answer is this: Is it resonable for upcoming players and returning players to spend year(s) to complete just one tier because the development has been at a halt for a long time and some decided to stick with it still.. and so should YOU!?

[Draca]

Just for clarity, when I say the GSS drop rate is pretty high in 10.67, and that there will be a reasonable economy for them in fairly short time, the average zonewide GSS drops for a full Veeshan's Peak repop is right around 14. Most of them are concentrated in the higher difficulty NPC's, but they will most certainly be available for trade.

Obviously people have spent hundreds or thousands of hours in Sunderock, a lot of that time being devoted to GSS farming, but T11 gear will make UA obsolete anyway, so at some point all the farming will have been for nothing either way. Sure, people coming up now, or barely into the Sunderock grind will never feel the pain, but as we're all agreeing, GSS's/UA was always pretty much about the pain anyway. Old timers will tell new players how lucky they are, new players will respond 'cool story grandpa', and everyone will keep grinding into new content.

My 5 UA requirement isn't so much a test of patience or determination,  it's a baseline player gearing level, that I can use for survivable, yet difficult encounter tuning. Making it rain GSS's for the people in VP will allow the economy to get more people involved in it.

Correct, Tier 11 has no UA requirement, although by then, UA will be fairly trivial to obtain anyway.

[Sarthin]

The plan was always in the past to make T10 less time consuming once new content was created. Making GSS more available in this zone and Sleepers makes more sense to me than relying on trades off VP people

[wachna]

I see it the same way as sarthin …

And another question: if t11 doesn’t require UA and people with little to no UA can survive/manage/kinda farm t11, what will players with many full UA do? A walk in the T11 park? :-)

Anyway now that I know how many GSS could drop in VP I will get a strong team ready for that and farm my GSS there and not in T10 anymore.. thx for the info draca

[Dokplayer2]

what about counting den mother's belt and vaxxol's ring as a UA piece like bracer from ST?

[Draca]

Why don't we see how it plays out after the first couple weeks of VP. I understand that previous developers had different ideas, and God knows mine won't all be winners, but I'm obviously pretty involved and active, so if something is a dud, changes can be made.

[Sarthin]

.. I'm obviously pretty involved and active..

Which is simply the most important thing for the server no matter how things play out. It pleases me a great deal to see. Just don't burn out

[Ginge]

The fact that I spent almost 8 hours a day for 3 weeks pulling camps in SR to not get a single GSS to me is just fucked up no matter the drop rate %...

I have to ask why GSS are going to drop so frequently in 10.67 if UA isn't needed for T11, just caters again for the people at the very top that can handle 10.67 mobs and shits on everyone else that can't but it's always been like that I guess...

Tank

[Loyal]

I don't know where you are at in your T10 progression, but it certainly matters. My guess is that you are still early in your T10 progression for you to spend that much time pulling in SR and not getting a single GSS...either that or you are having the worlds worst bad luck run.

GSS were introduced when I was halfway through getting my squad through T10. Even at that stage I was only pulling a camp at a time and wasn't killing super fast. During those days, GSS seemed like an impossible task.

Now that I am through T10, fully geared and can ZP, GSS's really aren't that bad when considering where I was at when I was still progressing in the zone. Take ZPing out of the equation, i had to do 1 and a half factions for toons I was never planning on UA until just recently returning because I figured it was something to do and better than doing nothing (I really really wanted to come back). Just rotating instances to do factions I had 3-4 GSS' drop. I have most of my GSS farm still ahead of me, so I'm certainly not saying this from the perspective of being done...but GSS really aren't that bad of a farm if you consider that they are really intended to be farmed at the end of T10 not while you are progressing through T10. The drop rate shouldn't be changed in T10.

As for the intended drop rate in 10.66666666667, I believe Draca mentioned somewhere that the intent was for it to provide those further advanced players to end up with a surplus of GSS in the hopes that it creates and economy for GSS. The people at the very top who get into 10.667 are going to be close to maxed out on GSS (if they arent already). So it shouldnt take long for GSS to be completely worthless for them (so not really catering to them to heavily). If anything a high drop rate in 10.6666667 is going to benefit lower players as GSS value is going to go down and hopefully you can see some GSS being traded for some EONs which anyone can farm (benefiting the everyone else rather than shitting on them).

[Ginge]

I have 18 toons flagged for t10, I have 3 toons in Full UA, I have been in SR for over a year...

I will not zone pull it because I

A) Shouldn't have to(It's a perk not a required mechanic)
B) I and other people tend to go LD and were told it's a problem our end and nothing to do with EZ.

Every time I try to argue the point it just gets shit on..

This is more than a grind for an item, it's an intentional time sink to stop people progressing to the next tier that we don't even have yet..which makes no sense whatsoever, I understand the introduction of them 5 years ago or whenever it was but the fact that we still don't have new content should change that drop rate so people aren't still trying to get the gss to get to 10.5 five years from now.

Tank

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