FG/CG Items No Drop?

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[talanos]

I think no drop is a bad idea because the guild items are basically the only form of currency on this server from what I've seen; they trade for other guild items, for runs, for PLing, and maybe now even for cash since instancing requires plat.  Reminds me kinda of stones of jordan from diablo.  I'm not really sure what would happen if they became no drop, but my gut feeling is that removing all forms of currency on the server would lead to problems.  Plus, even if they are no drop, that doesn't stop someone from bringing in 6 toons and camping the spawn for just as long as they used to.  So the upsides seem slim and the downsides may be quite large.

Personally, I just think if the instance price came down some, it would solve most of the issues.  I'm relatively new (still working through ldon on my first set of chars) so I don't know how much 100k is to a long time player, but for me, I don't see this as really assisting me in getting guild items.  I guess if the intent is that the high end players go to the instance because they can afford it for their new alt, and the progression players go to the real zone, that might make it play out alright as well, only time will tell really. 

In sum, I think you should drop the price to maybe 50k, but other than that, just leave this implementation in for awhile and see what happens.  Give it a few weeks to sink in and maybe the problems will alleviate.

The real solution in my mind is to add another spawn or two for each guild item somewhere else in the world, kinda like how Quill and Terror are both 1.5 bosses.  That would do alot to spread out the camps.  But its also alot more work so I can see why it might wait awhile.

[Follow Me]

Make them drop able  lore, that way if someone is keeping a camp it at least makes it a bit more inconvenient for them.  

[Studmuffin]

I vote no drop.  As someone who just started a week ago and has zero of my 7 toons in CG/FG simply because lGuk is so overcamped.  It's intimidating to want a to try and obtain the only thing everyone on the server is after (whether they need it or not!).   When I zone into lGuk and see 15 people in the zone, my usual response is "Screw this!" /click newbie trinket. 

For the people saying CG/FG camping to trade for Qvic runs is essential to progress... No it's not.  Paying someone to gear you up in gear you in stuff far ahead of what you would get by grouping/boxing your way up is BYPASSING progression. If the items became no-drop then you might actually have to GROUP or maybe even (OMG WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT!?!) join a guild to get gear that's too difficult or time consuming to get solo/boxed.

I can understand wanting an economy on the server, but seriously at what cost? 

Surely there are other ways of getting tradeable valuable items introduced.   Maybe rare drops throughout progression zones that have some kind of benefit for leveling/roa?  Like the XP potions or something that they used to give you for buying a new expansion, except tradeable.   High level people doing ROA would find those much more valuable than FG/CG crap, especially now that they can just pay 100k and have an instance all to themselves...

[Uxt]

I'd prefer the lore option, especially for knuckle dusters. One jerkoff could camp the spot for a whole day, whereas players would beg and cry just to get the door opened for them so they can just GET to the spawn.

This won't stop them from handing items away to guildmates or alts, but it'll discourage over-camping.

Making them no drop would kinda suck for the caster classes, like wizards. I mean, they go through much more to get to spawns. Melee are just one-man wrecking crews in comparison.

[Chane Laforet]

Maybe I'm just lucky.. but I never see this 'perma-camped' problem people speak of... I've done the Fg/Cg quest over 20times now and although guk is sometimes a little bit backed up, it's never stopped me from progressing... I just simply log in another toon to camp/wait in line,  and move on to another part of the quest, I mean it's guk... mobs are trivial to a lvl 50. The only place that I've ever had a backup at would be the king's cards, and there would be 10+ people in LDoN 5, but it was still doable, and if not... take a break until the zone clears out.

I also haven't encountered people holding spawns just to sell the items, although I have camped the KD for multiple items if nobody else was in the zone, and actually got 8 of them, then if people came to camp it I just gave them out for free and continued to camp it.

Just yesterday I created my chanter, and got her 2.5 within... 4 hours since making her, so honestly I just don't see what everyones problem is, I live on the West Coast, so I don't have any obscure play times... but anyways, point being, I see absolutely nothing wrong with the way it is now, time consuming? yes, but I think it's perfect the way it is, maybe lower guk spawn times, but not needed, if anything, make all items lore... but not no drop, I traded 5 sets to get my first 5 3.0's until I was able to support myself, they are a great economy.

[Mirielle]

I'll post an idea here that I put in another thread:
I think making alternate drop points for the items  (for example what was done for the PGT) in rarely used zones is a start.

Maybe also make then no-drop, but be able to hand them into a NPC somewhere in Nexus that turns them into a droppable version.

So that people farming them for profit / QVIC runs can still do that, but not tie up a camp for hours on end, denying new players from progressing.

Not sure how difficult the coding for that would be, but is an idea.

Creating a high price instance isn't the answer.
Only people who have been here for a long time will have that sort of cash, and might not use the instance anyway...

I've seen / heard people camp the KD for hours and hours, farming them in order to sell / trade for QVIC runs.
And then, when finished, hand the camp to someone WHO WAS NOT EVEN IN THE CAMP at the time.

Camping an item is all well and good, but when it comes at the expense of newer players who do not have the money to buy said item and therefore blocks their progression (when the camps in LGuk suck to start with), it can drive new people away and thus creates an "elitist environment".

Or another solution is to implement the Tiki rule.
Once you have one item, move on.  Vacate the camp, so that the next person in line gets a chance.
Or go to the back of the current line.

Just three ideas I've had......

[nuska]

Making these no drop would just suck, the people camping lguk the most are the noobs NOT higher ends. How many of these noobs are even at the current part where they must do fg/cg for progression. True noobs dont even make it past 1.5's. People asking for the no drop items will only bite ya in the ass later on. What happens when you want to create an alt and your all uber. You will want to do qvic runs for the quick set. Don't make this epic quest a pain in the ass. Makes me sad these wow fuckers want to crap up eq.

[nuska]

Another thing, how are you noobs complaining about fg/cg being over camped before complaining about ldon being over camped? ldon comes before fg/cg in progression. Is it because the higher ends are farming points and you guys snagged the rot pages? In that case your not progressing at all, just leaching off people.

Lets look at it this way... ldon 6 = lguk because there's always people there. Ldon 5 = sebilis because at times you can find the zone open but good chances are its camped. Ldon 1-4 are like the other fg/cg camps in which you occasionaly see people (this is how it used to be). Except now ldon zones have 10+ people in each zone.

So please tell me why you guys are crying for fix for cg/fg before a fix for ldon? Remember cg/fg is half of the 2.5 quest!

[Studmuffin]

Making these no drop would just suck, the people camping lguk the most are the noobs NOT higher ends. How many of these noobs are even at the current part where they must do fg/cg for progression. True noobs dont even make it past 1.5's. People asking for the no drop items will only bite ya in the ass later on. What happens when you want to create an alt and your all uber. You will want to do qvic runs for the quick set. Don't make this epic quest a pain in the ass. Makes me sad these wow fuckers want to crap up eq.

With all that filth coming off of your tongue I'm surprised you can stand the taste of it.

What happens when I want an alt in the cg/fg? I camp the items, like you're supposed to.   What if I want qvic runs? I get friends to run it (with your attitude that might not be an option) or I box it myself.  The reason this camp is a pain is not because you have to wait on your own drop, but on everyone and their brother camping in front of you, not for their own items, but for items to trade.  No drop solves this problem.

[Emitax]

Another thing, how are you noobs complaining about fg/cg being over camped before complaining about ldon being over camped? ldon comes before fg/cg in progression. Is it because the higher ends are farming points and you guys snagged the rot pages? In that case your not progressing at all, just leaching off people.

Lets look at it this way... ldon 6 = lguk because there's always people there. Ldon 5 = sebilis because at times you can find the zone open but good chances are its camped. Ldon 1-4 are like the other fg/cg camps in which you occasionaly see people (this is how it used to be). Except now ldon zones have 10+ people in each zone.

So please tell me why you guys are crying for fix for cg/fg before a fix for ldon? Remember cg/fg is half of the 2.5 quest!

What's wrong with getting rotting pages if you have permission to do so??? Also you're comparing getting 1 item to getting multiple each at a different place/camp and waiting in line for each camp.  Maybe that's why people have an issue? Need before Greed. If your alt needs it... camp one... If you are just wanting to sell it then it's common courtesy to pass the camp to the person that needs it. When s/he is gone continue camping. That's all we're asking. Is it too much to ask for some courtesy?

Also, Have you TRIED getting a group for these thing atm with all the noobs??? Just getting a group is like pulling teeth. Then once you're there and you have your own group mates being retarded and training you, or like myself... agro'ing too many because I don't know the zone... so I can't solo there either... It's frustrating. I'm NOT crying, I'm just stating clearly there is a justifiable fix. Just make each item lore that way they can only be camped 1 x per toon thus making lines shorter for those progressing and still keeping items for the economy.

my 2 cents

[Gantrathor]

I voted for No Drop.  Yes, I know that the FG/CG items are the server's only real economy.  The problem is, it is also progression.  People permacamping a progression item to use as currency is wrong.

All other progression items are timed spawn with a certain drop.  True, the CG/FG Quest would lose the quest feel if there were no randomness to the spawn/drop of the item.  But that change along with no drop would probably remove the bottleneck entirely.

There's lots of stuff beyond the 1.5 you have to work hard to get (armor in t2 and t4).  This one served it's purpose when the server was young and the population low.  Now that things are busier, I don't think you'll ruin the gameplay experience by making this phase of progression more like the rest.  Of course, I have no idea what's involved in coding that so it may be impractical...or at the very least WAY down on the list of things that need to be dealt with.   

[Uxt]

I've seen / heard people camp the KD for hours and hours, farming them in order to sell / trade for QVIC runs.
And then, when finished, hand the camp to someone WHO WAS NOT EVEN IN THE CAMP at the time.

Oh yeah, that was some great drama.

During double drop weekend, Tinythorn camped KD for an entire day, while players complained in OOC about it. He didn't even respond, and after he was finally done with the camp, tried to hand it over to another guildmate who wasn't even there yet.

Oh, and while I stand by my suggestion of making all FG/CG items lore, I also suggest making the instances solo only! Reduce the cost of making the instance slightly to counter the fact that some players might not be in the instance for very long.

[prescient]

I'm all for making the items no drop.

[Razormaw]

Okay, let's examine the issues:

Facts:
- EZ Server has had a huge population increase of late
- The quests and drops were built around a smaller population
- Greater number of players means greater camping required
- Not everyone can (or has the desire to) multibox
- Not everyone wants to be run through their progression
- FG/CG items are pretty much the only currency the server values (whether for good or bad, that's how it is.)
- A large number of people see something is camped and find something else to do, so keep in mind any added feature to reduce camp time/length may not have a noticed effect at a micro level; it has to be examined in a global/general way.

Suggested Solutions and Potential Repercussions:
Make FG/CG No Drop
- Non-boxers will no longer be able to get help in Qvic/LDoN except by random chance from a helpful stranger/guildy. They will be stuck at 1.5 or 2.0 until people start focusing on grouping in the early tiers (in the meantime, we'll see a lot of people quit instead of wait for this shift.)
- Boxers farming for alts will just sit with their army of alts in the camps.
- People boxing multiple camps will continue to box multiple camps and just run the alt needing the drops to the camp when a needed item drops.
- What changes: Potentially fewer people camping multiple drops in a row, no people farming to trade for other items/runs, noobs/one-boxers lose something to "work for" to get help progressing since nobody groups pre-Tacvi, and lines become a bit shorter for the items.
- Keep in mind how many people go "It's camped? Screw this." Those people will now go camp it instead.

Make Them Lore
- One-boxers can only farm one at a time.
- Multi-boxers will camp an army of alts at the camps, logging them in and out to loot until they have enough.
- People will continue to farm for runs/trades.
- Will prevent SOME cases of camping multiple drop, but not all (see second point.)
- End Result: One-boxers camp less. Multi-boxers unchanged.

Make Them No Drop, But Tradeable After NPC Turnin
- Lots of work by the dev team
- Not seeing how this changes much, honestly.
- If you're thinking Lore + No Drop, see downsides to Lore above.

100k Guild Instances
- Benefits the rich folk most, who will be farming for alts/bots.
- Nearly insurmountable cost for the "little guy," who will continue to farm non-instance.
- People farming for greed over need won't be dropping 100k, and will continue to use non-instance.
- Larger guilds may organize "FG/CG days" for their members, but at 100k/24 hours it won't be an ongoing thing like the Epic instancing is.
- End Result: Potentially lower public camp lines for the rich multiboxing crowd. Still long lines for the people farming to trade or for their personal use.

Make Items Drop From More Mobs In Unused Zones
- Spreads the camping out to account for higher population
- Can give some population to currently empty zones
- Gives no specific advantage or disadvantage to any one section of the population
- Becomes a measurable and controllable increase in droprate so as not to trivialize or over-flood the server with supposed-to-be-semi-rare drops. Which is what instancing does.
- Does not disrupt trade/run farmers
- Is expandable to a 3rd or 4th mob if the need arises
- Doesn't require you to be rich or multibox or anything
- End Result: All players get equal global droprate improvement, no specific advantage to one- or multi-boxers without breaking rules (multi-boxers hold both camps with their characters,) no disruption to the "economy" of the server, apart from a measured increase in drops.

In case you couldn't tell, I prefer the latter option

[Gunther]

I've seen / heard people camp the KD for hours and hours, farming them in order to sell / trade for QVIC runs.
And then, when finished, hand the camp to someone WHO WAS NOT EVEN IN THE CAMP at the time.

During double drop weekend, Tinythorn camped KD for an entire day, while players complained in OOC about it. He didn't even respond, and after he was finally done with the camp, tried to hand it over to another guildmate who wasn't even there yet.

That is exactly what happened to me the last time I needed a KD.

I get there around 2:00 PM and there is a toon named ****b camping it - I'll leave him nameless, but it's pretty easy to figure out who it is. I'm sure a lot of you have seen this tool camping various items for hours on end.

I ask him him "how many KD's you need? so I know when to check back?"

No reply.

Login 2 hours later ask the same thing and get no treply from ****b

Login 3 hours later, ****b is still there ignoring anyone who asks him a question yet killing every spawn.

Login another hour later, still no reply to says, tells, ooc. Nothing. But this guy is obviously there because everytime some zones in or opens the door he is turning around to look and see who it is.

Make these items lore so jackasses like ****b cant pull shit like this anymore.

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