Cleric Heal Buffing

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[Hunter]

I need to rebalance Paladin-Clerics.

[Smoka]

No, no you don't.

[lerxst2112]

It's going to be a tough problem to solve without someone giving something up somewhere.

Paladin healing is so effortless that any adjustment to clerics will have to be over the top to make them comparable as healers.  It doesn't help that Paladins are also an excellent DPS class, especially once you add some firestrike augs.  The combination makes it hard to justify replacing one with a cleric, even if cleric healing is made to be much better.

One thing that might be an option is to fix the higher level cleric pet that is missing an entry in the database for its spawn.  Just copy the lower level pet and adjust the stats a bit.  Once that's done, perhaps make the cleric pets a little bit useful as some extra DPS.  Right now the pet just has so few HP that it dies immediately even with the extra 10k from the pet weapons.  Maybe give cleric pets a different weapon that gives them more hp and a heal that is less than what paladins do, but still helpful.

I use a cleric in my group doing T2, and I like to think it helps if we miss a couple of rounds of procs from the 2 pallies, but the truth is I could replace the cleric with another pally and be better off.

[Fugitive]

Cleric 3.5 and 4.0 clicky can be reworked to fall in lines or stackable with the 3.0 shield.. it don't need to be a lot 100-200% would work wonders for us.


the T3 spell refresh and mana cost is overboard for what the spell can really do.. drop the cost period..

Make the T4 stackable with the shaman 3.0, 3.5, 4.0 line.

[Nolanite]

I think if you brought down pally proc heals effectiveness by like 1/5 collectively you would bring them down enough to be reasonable, right now they are basically invincible. bash away, but this is the truth.

as far as clerics, they really have no way of competing with current pallys, and even with the 1/5 decrease they still trail significantly. to be honest, i think pallys have healing locked down as it is, not that thats a bad thing, or good thing. I like the group buff proc idea, this would make melees more worth while in groups, and worthwhile to have a cleric around. If you made the proc maybe 1/10 of the pally proc, you would have a significant amount of healing but at the same time not over powered amount. for example 4 melees would produce as much as about half a pally, it wouldnt make it worthwhile to have all melee and one cleric and would also give a cleric something to do while clearing, meleeing for small heals. This would be a good proc buff. also to this low duration, maybe 45 second buff, you could add an HP buff, lets say 15k while the buff is active. it would make up for the lack of healing and give something to the group that a shaman box once an hour for buffs cant give you. In addition to this short duration proc/hp buff i think it would be important to buff up the clerics single target healing. Pallys i think are fine doing the group healing, i would like to see one in a group instead of a group of 3 and 1 tank, that tank being a wizard... that is the poster child of an unbalanced class(pally that is). Buff up the single target heals for clerics and now you have a significant group role for a cleric as someone who can supplement a pally to keep the group alive, as well as keep the tank up against serious DPS. this improvement would probably be easiest done through lower recast quick casts, AHL, renewals, as well as a higher epic focus, say 6 or 800 or so. It would be enough to get them back into groups as a significant class, and still have need for a pally in the group, as well as DPS and obviously a tank. Also a spell, or maybe REALLY expensive AA or epic click of an insta group 100k CH would be legit, make it like a 5 minute recast, emergency type spell. basically a divine arbitration type but practical at high end.
I think this idea has a huge potential to bring GROUPING back to the higher end of the game as well as bring back melee classes and group/class  balance across the board. It would make more classes, other than the cleric, more useful.

I personally love playing a cleric and playing the class as a main, ide love to see it make a come back.
Just my 2 cents~

[Brianlb]

I think if you brought down pally proc heals effectiveness by like 1/5 collectively you would bring them down enough to be reasonable, right now they are basically invincible. bash away, but this is the truth.

as far as clerics, they really have no way of competing with current pallys, and even with the 1/5 decrease they still trail significantly. to be honest, i think pallys have healing locked down as it is, not that thats a bad thing, or good thing. I like the group buff proc idea, this would make melees more worth while in groups, and worthwhile to have a cleric around. If you made the proc maybe 1/10 of the pally proc, you would have a significant amount of healing but at the same time not over powered amount. for example 4 melees would produce as much as about half a pally, it wouldnt make it worthwhile to have all melee and one cleric and would also give a cleric something to do while clearing, meleeing for small heals. This would be a good proc buff. also to this low duration, maybe 45 second buff, you could add an HP buff, lets say 15k while the buff is active. it would make up for the lack of healing and give something to the group that a shaman box once an hour for buffs cant give you. In addition to this short duration proc/hp buff i think it would be important to buff up the clerics single target healing. Pallys i think are fine doing the group healing, i would like to see one in a group instead of a group of 3 and 1 tank, that tank being a wizard... that is the poster child of an unbalanced class(pally that is). Buff up the single target heals for clerics and now you have a significant group role for a cleric as someone who can supplement a pally to keep the group alive, as well as keep the tank up against serious DPS. this improvement would probably be easiest done through lower recast quick casts, AHL, renewals, as well as a higher epic focus, say 6 or 800 or so. It would be enough to get them back into groups as a significant class, and still have need for a pally in the group, as well as DPS and obviously a tank. Also a spell, or maybe REALLY expensive AA or epic click of an insta group 100k CH would be legit, make it like a 5 minute recast, emergency type spell. basically a divine arbitration type but practical at high end.
I think this idea has a huge potential to bring GROUPING back to the higher end of the game as well as bring back melee classes and group/class  balance across the board. It would make more classes, other than the cleric, more useful.

I personally love playing a cleric and playing the class as a main, ide love to see it make a come back.
Just my 2 cents~

Clerics already have a beefed up single target heal. The problem is the cast time and mana cost. They also have a clicky heal with a 5 minute cast time. Problem with that is pallys have a better one w/a one minute cast time. Clerics prior to T3 have limited use, once you're in T3 they have almost no use unless you want them for DI.

[Fugitive]

They have about as much use as the people who dream of "Live" or P99.

I keep cleric in group t3/t4 full time


Do people really think these high end encounters will be doable with a shitty cleric alone, fuck most of the people I meet here can't even play a warrior/sk/pally let alone keep a tank up when your getting tripled for 70-90k not including bouncing aggro and whatever else could happen.

and if you guys cant see Hunter's sarcasm in his post..

Get max oracle,
Get 3.0 and 4.0 hope Healing bonus upgrade on 3.5 and 4.0 stack with 3.0 in future..

See lower cast times and reduction of T3 mana cost... right now its memmed cast maybe once to see it rez jesus.. but that's about it..

I too played a raid cleric in live.. oh the fking joy of staring @ walls in healing loops..... ooo ahhh.. /meh

[Padme]

Cleric 3.5 and 4.0 clicky can be reworked to fall in lines or stackable with the 3.0 shield.. it don't need to be a lot 100-200% would work wonders for us.


the T3 spell refresh and mana cost is overboard for what the spell can really do.. drop the cost period..

Make the T4 stackable with the shaman 3.0, 3.5, 4.0 line.

Cant say better

[Balthor2]

I think if you brought down pally proc heals effectiveness by like 1/5 collectively you would bring them down enough to be reasonable, right now they are basically invincible. bash away, but this is the truth.

as far as clerics, they really have no way of competing with current pallys, and even with the 1/5 decrease they still trail significantly. to be honest, i think pallys have healing locked down as it is, not that thats a bad thing, or good thing. I like the group buff proc idea, this would make melees more worth while in groups, and worthwhile to have a cleric around. If you made the proc maybe 1/10 of the pally proc, you would have a significant amount of healing but at the same time not over powered amount. for example 4 melees would produce as much as about half a pally, it wouldnt make it worthwhile to have all melee and one cleric and would also give a cleric something to do while clearing, meleeing for small heals. This would be a good proc buff. also to this low duration, maybe 45 second buff, you could add an HP buff, lets say 15k while the buff is active. it would make up for the lack of healing and give something to the group that a shaman box once an hour for buffs cant give you. In addition to this short duration proc/hp buff i think it would be important to buff up the clerics single target healing. Pallys i think are fine doing the group healing, i would like to see one in a group instead of a group of 3 and 1 tank, that tank being a wizard... that is the poster child of an unbalanced class(pally that is). Buff up the single target heals for clerics and now you have a significant group role for a cleric as someone who can supplement a pally to keep the group alive, as well as keep the tank up against serious DPS. this improvement would probably be easiest done through lower recast quick casts, AHL, renewals, as well as a higher epic focus, say 6 or 800 or so. It would be enough to get them back into groups as a significant class, and still have need for a pally in the group, as well as DPS and obviously a tank. Also a spell, or maybe REALLY expensive AA or epic click of an insta group 100k CH would be legit, make it like a 5 minute recast, emergency type spell. basically a divine arbitration type but practical at high end.
I think this idea has a huge potential to bring GROUPING back to the higher end of the game as well as bring back melee classes and group/class  balance across the board. It would make more classes, other than the cleric, more useful.

I personally love playing a cleric and playing the class as a main, ide love to see it make a come back.
Just my 2 cents~

Hello new guy with like zero time on this server.
Want to nerf a class already I see.
Hope you like it later when shits sucking for you.

For the longest fucking time on this server you either played 2clericcs in your group or didnt do shit for content. Now its changed and you have the option to keep clerics in with the dps and still people are bitching and QQing left and right.
Once you get a few toons with 3.5+ you can come talk. Buying that shit doesnt count.

[Mechules]

What if Clerics got some sort of item, perhaps their Epic, that when right-clicked would summon a pet.

The pet could stay up for 2-3 mins, recast of 5 or so, but all the pet would do is target party/raid members within a 100m vicinity and anyone under 50ish% would be healed by the cleric pet? We could make the heals really beefy, and perhaps have the cleric pet cast songs to enhance other players' healing capabilities within the party/raid.

Just a quick idea that doesn't involve nerfing the hell out of pallies.

*Quick edit here*

How about having our original Epics already stay in game, but much like a pally handing in his 2h epic for a 1h version, the cleric could hand in their Epics for something with the same stats, but a different right-click effect. That way, we'd be probably getting 2-3 epics per cleric for pet, focus, and heal.

[Smoka]

To all the cleric lovers out there, stop bashing on Paladins. You are the type of people tha twould win a $300 million dollar lottery then complain that you won too much money. Get over it already. Just make a paladin and go with it.

[ronmeister]

Seriously why would you change Pally? because some people want to add a cleric to there Box of characters?
What about people like me who dont box and actually group with people .If the Pally wasnt so powerfull how would i be able to play .
If you are that worried about using a Cleric but Pally makes them useless Drop the bloody Pally from your box of char's that way your cleric can be used to heal.Just because theres an easy option dosnt mean you have to use it ,choice is a wonderfull thing.
Let the flaming clerics begin

[L0stman]

Wow, this topic sure has caused a lot of heart burn.

Let me put my thoughts into a question:  Do you find it odd that a class that is meant to do nothing but heal (in fact has no utility but healing) is a much worst healer than a class that also puts out some of the best dps in the game? 

This is not to say that paladin should be nerfed - this is to determine if there is a problem.

OK, I assume you agree that it is odd.  Part of the solution would be to adjust the DPS, Auto Healing, and Casted Heals of either the cleric, the paladin, or both.  If you very strongly want to keep the paladin where it is, why not suggest some alternatives to this?

Saying "There may be an issue but lols its ok, lets just delete the class" is not really a good answer.

[Lintrix]

I think it's pretty much a consensus that the T3 Cleric heal needs to be looked at.  For a high-end spell, it really provides almost no use due to the associated mana cost.

There are plenty of people on this server that rely on Paladins the way they are - and would not be able to play without their abilities to help them along.

I actually use a Cleric at all times on T3/T4 boss fights, and am considering making another. 

[Mechules]

So is the pet clicky Epic alternative just a bad idea, or are we still arguing about nerfing pallies? =P

Just wanna know if that idea is dumb, or if anyone else might support it.

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