Cleric Heal Buffing

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[Teehee]

NERF SHADOWKNIGHTS!

[Fugitive]

On top of that, I see a lot of players getting their asses handed to them... while they are 4.0ed... I'm like hmm, what's going on.. then I find out no ROA no Charms and running t2 armor no hp augs..



I've seen a few of "these" people on the forums posting about changes..

[Balthor2]

I guess buying the top content does not invest them with knowledge or understanding of the server.

[Brianlb]

I have to jump back into this thread, partly because it's derailed and partly because I play a 4.0 PoG geared SK. Now in no way are sk's overpowered. Take away the firestrike augs and sk's aren't much(compared to pally or warrior). The augs are the only reason why sk's are mentioned anymore. The class itself wasn't beefed up, the augs were brought into the game, the same augs a pally can get or even your duel weild classes(although a different version of the augs)

Now back to the original topic of the thread. Let's focus more on making cleric's better, not nerfing this/that. Sure some classes need to be brought back up, maybe even some nerfed(and I have a 3.5 pally too just so someone doesn't jump on me for the "pallys don't need to be nerfed bandwagon"). But if the classes are to be balanced(meaning other classes having an increase in "X" or "Y" then the content should be tougher. This is pretty much a tank & spank server, sure there are some adds and some DT once you get into the high end stuff, but for the most part it's tank/spank.

Cleric's I think it's pretty much agreed on that those of us that play in T3/T4 that the T3 spell needs a mana reduction. What that reduction is to I don't know 3-5k maybe, I don't know. The 3.5 needs to be changed. It should at least be on par w/a pally's 3.5, but probably better. Maybe make it a 1 minute recast but a group heal instead of single target, hell I don't know.

Just my 2 cp, but I more worried about making clerics better/efficient right now than all the other classes mentioned in this thread.

[Nolanite]

Just to clear my post up, i dont think im suggesting anything too extreme. 1/5 isnt much of a set back, especially considering how much those heals probably over lap while proc healing a group. I dont want to nerf anything, keep the 1/5 for all i care. But clerics should be buffed up regardless. Like whoever said, i think that its wrong that a tank class is the primary healer in the game and the promary healer class of the game is basically worthless. This is my issue, not really paladins. I think my suggestions are legitimate, they help make the cleric more group oriented, which i think is what playing this game is all about. Ide love to see more grouping than boxing, call me crazy. I know this isnt really practical considering our numbers, especially in high end, but box crews(4+) may be a challenge for one person but how much fun is a challenge without some company? I think some changes to the cleric could make picking up an LFG melee that much more practical, seeing as they pose a heal bonus as well as dps.

[Fugitive]

Remember this too... This is a Custom server... not live..

Let's keep tossing out ideas out there for some fixes Hunter will bite on one of them sooner or later..

[Lintrix]

i think that its wrong that a tank class is the primary healer in the game and the promary healer class of the game is basically worthless.

If you're referring to paladins tanking and healing pre T1/T2, then your argument might hold; however, anything past that and Paladins are no longer a tank for the end game content.

[Balthor2]

Btw anyone that try to use the "someone is LFG and should be considered.." quickly get /ignore listed.
I saw someone the other day in /ooc asking to join a HoH group.
I did a /who and saw it was some off beat class and thought to my self "Sure you can join my group, I will do ALL the work and you can loot all the gems and get the pages, cause like that totally sounds fair and reasonable and a productive use of my time."

Yea, not.
Sorry but if you want to see HoH+ you need to box and/or Box and get a guild.
Might get lucky when someone is super bored and is like "sure I'll run you through hoh for 20 or 30min so you can see whats up" but honostly who is going to let that solo player join the group when they contribute next to nothing. Sucks but its the way this server is.

Now if someone was a serious player, loved that class (insert random class such as ranger here) AND played either CLR/PAL/SK I would give them a guild. At this lvl of play YOU the player need to get to the point where you are self sufficient in regards to farming epic pages and later doing T3 for the armor you want and need.
/hug

About clerics: Reduce mana cost yes and I think there is a rule which can make heals crit for more.
I remember heals did use to heal for more and either a SVN update or another change nerfed it hard.
Secrets was in vent with us a long time ago and I brought it up and was told that some of the focuses "never improved healing" and I just dropped the subject(BS btw I have SS and logfiles somewhere!). Now with Hunter looking at this topic we should get off the nerf bandwangon and seriously brainstorm ideas on how we want the cleric to be.

[Caryatis]

You guys should get ideas from cleric spells that have been released in recent expansions. I implemented target type 46 today which uses the target of your target as your target.

For example Holy Intervention it heals your target with 1 effect and then it nukes that target's target with the other effect(ie heal maintank and nuke mob he is tanking at same time).

Then theres the reverse Holy Contraventin which nukes your target and heals that target's target(ie nuke mob and heal the tank).

The simple version is like Gift of Life which just straight up uses your target's target as the target, in this case healing and putting a hot on the target's target.

Lots of classes get things like that too, Healing Counterbias is a shm version which slows the target and puts a HoT on its target.

However there is a limit, if pal passive proc healing is all you need then there is nothing you can do to bring a cleric in line with that. If pals are also awesome dps, then they sound in need of a nerf. People always like to say that you should buff other classes instead of nerfing classes but that is short sighted, the game is all relative. If you had 5 million HP, that would sound like a lot but if mobs hit for 10 million a hit then you would be useless. So if paladins can proc heal a group while doing sick dps and then you buff other classes up to where the paladin is(ie buff 15 other classes instead of tuning 1 class), then the mobs will need to get readjusted as Hunter I'm sure would like to keep some semblance of challenge here. That's why if one class gets out of balance a nerf is usually the best option because its alot easier to pull something back then push forward 15 other classes and then worry about balance in all of the content on your server.

As alot of people have pointed out, the game evolves. What is a powerful class one month, may not be as powerful next month. Balance is a constant process.

[Xiggie | Stone]

However there is a limit, if pal passive proc healing is all you need then there is nothing you can do to bring a cleric in line with that. If pals are also awesome dps, then they sound in need of a nerf.

While I appreciate your information about casting and counter casting on the targets targets targets targets target how would you know how to balance the end game on this server when you have not experience anywhere near the end game on this server. There are no universal solutions that you can blankly fit over every server. For you to come here and blindly say that if a + b = c then d = nerf, is just blind arrogance. You may be great at coding, but you are shyte at content.

[Collector]

You may be great at coding, but you are shyte at content.

Actually.... he ran a great custom SoD server for awhile, until real life/new business caught up with him... I believe it was called... Trials of Destruction? Maybe you didn't know so, but still he did produce great content.. and it wasnt juust "tank N spank" actually had to think strategically, cure, and what not =)

[Xiggie | Stone]

Yeah I saw that server, never had much of a population to it.

[Balthor2]

Trials of Destruction? Didnt that server release its source for a short period in case anyone wanted to use it?
I have a complete server source download from Sep2010 I shortnamed TOD and only found it again since I started up a test server to evaluate ideas.

I appreciate Caryatis for coming here and posting input several times, even after several times people (myself included) called him a piece of crap. He is a pretty standup guy to still actually care enough about custom EMU and hell maybe even plays a toon here when he can, but still he comes here and posts ideas.

Do I like them all? No
Do I agree with his thinking? Not often but its another man's opinion and is worth listening to

[Gnaughty]

I need to get offn my ass and get some firestrike augs!!

[Collector]

Trials of Destruction? Didnt that server release its source for a short period in case anyone wanted to use it?
I have a complete server source download from Sep2010 I shortnamed TOD and only found it again since I started up a test server to evaluate ideas.

I appreciate Caryatis for coming here and posting input several times, even after several times people (myself included) called him a piece of crap. He is a pretty standup guy to still actually care enough about custom EMU and hell maybe even plays a toon here when he can, but still he comes here and posts ideas.

Do I like them all? No
Do I agree with his thinking? Not often but its another man's opinion and is worth listening to

yes, he did release it, and if i wasn't such an idoit at comouters and what not, i prolly would've tried to build off of it myself.. but yeah. lol

Now, I will say didn't mean to start anything, as I know everyone differs in opinion, and I know no he doesn't really play here playu here, so doesn't know like t4 is about, well neither do I myself, but I thought maybe it myself too, as you guys say clerics are useless to pals.

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