Honestly....what do you expect from newer player

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[Solbash]

For future, lets make it to where you HAVE to farm ldon gear to upgrade to qvic......cmon lets complain some more

[cerwin]

yeah things were probably harder, and laggier, back when the server was new.. but that 'endgame' (by Xiggie's post, 2.5s and ldon gear?) was much closer to new characters than the current 'endgame' (6.0s and T6?)

I know what youre saying here and I agree, the gap between endgame and newcomers should never exceed a certain distance. Pick a distance you think is appropriate and always find a way to keep it there as you add new content. You can do it through gear resets, or increasingly accelerated gains up to that threshold, or some other fashion. In this way, you dont discourage new people from starting up here, but you also give the hardcore people their dues. WoW did pretty well in this regard, you didnt have to spend as much time in the previous zones as the people who first fought through them. Even EQ eventually realized that this was a necessary evil and changed to accelerated experience (up to a certain point) and gear resets (somewhat).

Despite what I said above, the forums was a terrible place to post this idea. The endgamers here are the most vocal of the entire playerbase, and most of them would rather have no newcomers at all than let someone have it easier than they did. So next time, I would suggest PMing Hunter if you want to make a suggestion but want to avoid the headache that comes with it.  

[Stuff4Sale]

yeah things were probably harder, and laggier, back when the server was new.. but that 'endgame' (by Xiggie's post, 2.5s and ldon gear?) was much closer to new characters than the current 'endgame' (6.0s and T6?)

I know what youre saying here and I agree, the gap between endgame and newcomers should never exceed a certain distance. Pick a distance you think is appropriate and always find a way to keep it there as you add new content. You can do it through gear resets, or increasingly accelerated gains up to that threshold, or some other fashion. In this way, you dont discourage new people from starting up here, but you also give the hardcore people their dues. EQ eventually realized that this was a necessary evil and changed to accelerated experience (up to a certain point) and gear resets (somewhat).

Despite what I said above, the forums was a terrible place to post this idea. The endgamers here are the most vocal of the entire playerbase, and most of them would rather have no newcomers at all than let someone have it easier than they did. So next time, I would suggest PMing Hunter if you want to make a suggestion but want to avoid the headache that comes with it.  

[lerxst2112]

So next time, I would suggest PMing Hunter if you want to make a suggestion but want to avoid the headache that comes with it.  

Lol, you just say that because you know Hunter doesn't read PMs.

[Xiggie | Stone]

Maybe people just didn't read what I said. Back then it took months to even get to ldon. You spent weeks in BoThunder alone. With the addition of augs and the market it has cut that time down to weeks to get all the way to qvic, and that is slow at that. To add to it even more you have people giving away gear that was once highly treasured. So in other words it has gotten easier and the time to gear has shortened quite a bit. How people can't see this is beyond me. Hunter has also made things quicker by upping drop rates in areas like t1 and t2 and probably more.

Despite what I said above, the forums was a terrible place to post this idea. The endgamers here are the most vocal of the entire playerbase, and most of them would rather have no newcomers at all than let someone have it easier than they did. So next time, I would suggest PMing Hunter if you want to make a suggestion but want to avoid the headache that comes with it. 

The forums are a great place. It gives outside of your own head perspective.

End gamers are the most vocal. They have time invested not only in the game but the community as well. They also have knowledge and experience in the server. If it were not for that knowledge and experience that every newcomer benefits from this server would be a lot harder.

I have helped more people on this server than you have known on this server. I have brought people from other server into this server. I have shared ideas with Hunter a couple of times about what I think would attract people and keep newcomers interested. I have even gone so far as to create brand new toons so that I could see things from a newcomers standpoint as best I can.

Hunter does not respond to PM, something we learned from experience. You'd do best sending him a short email. Hunter has said in the past longer emails tend to get pushed to the side to read when he has more time.

[Chunka]

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination "end game". I just recently stepped into T5 (I'm pacing myself, Sgt Hulka). I thought I might weigh in a little.

I'm against some types of content, as I have stated before (DT's or similar in particular, since I dont see the "elegance" of it, I guess....it just seems like a cheap mechanic to me, and did before I ever played here). Please do not confuse that with me wanting things to be easier or faster.

I've played EQ for a long time (late 98 and then into launch). I LOVE the game, though its lost a lot of its appeal for me on the live servers. Why? Because SOE seems to want to pander to people who want things faster or easier (hereafter referred to as "WoWhiners"). They actually added mercenaries to the game to compensate for the population dropping. They believe the pop declined because their game was harder and more complex than that Blizzard monstrosity....but EVERY EQ player I've spoken to who did anything of substance in EQ said they left because SOE "bastardized" or WoWified the game....they made it easier, faster....just....well, less. Less challenge, less involvement, less FUN.

I've played a lot of MMO's over the last few years, trying to find SOMETHING that has that old fire. It doesnt exist. Every new MMO out (with the possible exception of Vanguard....but thats another story) is following the WoW formula: if you dumb it down to double digit IQ, they will pay". And almost universally they have failed. Why? Because they arent original. Because if someone wants a game that panders to the mentally challenged or the "so casual we cant do anything for more than an hour at a time" crowd,  Blizzard produces a decent one. Because almost universally after a few weeks you've pretty much been there, done that in the entire game (SWTOR anyone? WAR?).

The resistance you get from these "end game" guys and the old timers is mostly because we do NOT want to see this game take that path, just to appeal to the WoWhiners who show up, bored to tears with their cardboard cookie cutter crapfest of a game, play here because its "free", then piss whine and moan because the game doesnt hand everything to them on a silver freaking platter like that Blizzard POS does. And forgive me....but I cannot help but find the ridiculous in that: the game you are playing bores you to tears, so much that you try to find something else, and the first thing you do when you land is try your all to make that game a carbon copy of the game you left from boredom. This is what happened to one of the best launched games I have EVER seen, RIFT.

If I have painted this in an unfair light, I wont apologize. I stand by my statements here. But to soften things, I will say that if you want things easy, you dont want EZ. There are plenty of games out there, many FTP, that may better accommodate your expectations and play style.

[Chunka]

Oh, and one thing to Hunter: regarding the PoAir "DD" thing....someone before mentioned keeping the DD/DT, but put it on the adds. I have another idea, perhaps, to keep a challenge without the zerg element: perhaps every minute or 10 seconds an add stays alive, the boss gets an attack/dps buff, making them stronger and nastier if you dont take out the adds. Something that stacks and stays, making it impossible for people to AFK fight Air.

And another to the people commenting on Shadow and his fear. There are ways to handle the fear/root thing. Think about it a while and it'll come to you.

[Undeterred]

You folks have taken this thread to another Easier/Faster place, where I do not wish to be. I want equal opportunity.

My original post was asking about what updates have been put in from original game, that makes it necessary to put in all these "extra" obstacles?

Xig did answer a few... improved drop rates in T1 and the addition of augs (Xig, do you mean strike augs OR the augs that drop in LDoN+). My question about drop rates, did they increase because of population increase? It would make sense if you have an large influx of players entering an area to keep the traffic moving.

But I disagree with market and rot as being an excuse to a shorter path. Yes, these were highly prized back then by higher level players, they are highly prized now by newcomers. If you wish to sell them, destroy them or give them away it is up to the player doing the killing. It should NOT be the job of the server admin to decide to change older content on the basis of obsolete gear going to new players.

Hunter, ask yourself exactly why are you making OLDER content more challenging? Players up to that point in the game do not have any super powers over our predecessors.  OR are you just trying to keep T6 players from amassing a UC army for sale or whatnot? I think you may want to look for alternate avenues for that, such not to discourage players doing level appropriate content.

As I said before, I am not looking for easier/faster, unfortunately that does happen naturally, as higher end gear trickles down to other players. But those of us who try to progress properly should not be punished for it.

[Chunka]

I think, Un, you are missing the point. The game now is easier than when many of us began, NOT harder. Hunter toned some things down for a while, as he said, to play around with some options.....then got busy with other things and never changed it back. Or to appease people who complained about the difficulty. However you want to look at it, the game now is easier than when a lot of this content released....even after these recent tweaks/corrections.

[Chunka]

And to be fair, a lot of the "end gamers" people talk about here got their gear/epics/access back when things WERE more difficult...so I can see them being somewhat unsympathetic when people complain that content is "too hard/slow/etc" when it was harder, slower, etceteraer when they first did it.

[Xiggie | Stone]

I was referring to strike augs. I capped out my monks dps before strike augs at 12k. Pretty sure that happen somewhere around Tacvi. Before then the highest dps was mage pets. They just took a hell of a lot of managing and tended to either die themselves or get your group killed.

Hunter has stated in the past that about 2 tiers behind top tier he increases the drops and spawn rates. I am guessing that T1/2 was in Anguish originally for about 3 or 4 months. That entire time I saw 3 plate legs and 2 plate bps. I am pretty sure that I killed in T1/2 more than any other person on the server and that is all that I saw. A group that is on the T1/2 level could get 2 or 3 a day now easy. On top of that people give stuff like that away now. That or sell it for nominal amounts of plat. That has to be considered because that influences how fast most people come through the server. Most people take advantage of the market and most people will accept a freebee. If you are not taking advantage of those things then you are a rarity. Nothing can ever be based off a select few, it has to be based off the mass majority.

[Xiggie | Stone]

I would also like to add that reputation seems to matter a lot in everquest. It matters more because if you have a bad one people don't want you around, they don't want to help you or show you the ropes or anything. As far as I know Undeterred your reputation is pretty solid. Looking at this thread alone, I may disagree with you but you seem to be a pretty solid guy. That is part of playing everquest vs other games, why not take advantage of that. If you are anything in game like you are on the forums I know I would certainly have you with me even if you were under geared for where I was at.

[nuska]

I've played EQ for a long time (late 98 and then into launch). I LOVE the game, though its lost a lot of its appeal for me on the live servers. Why? Because SOE seems to want to pander to people who want things faster or easier (hereafter referred to as "WoWhiners"). They actually added mercenaries to the game to compensate for the population dropping. They believe the pop declined because their game was harder and more complex than that Blizzard monstrosity....but EVERY EQ player I've spoken to who did anything of substance in EQ said they left because SOE "bastardized" or WoWified the game....they made it easier, faster....just....well, less. Less challenge, less involvement, less FUN.

Wow, this argument is so outdated. and yes, i still play eqlive.

[Stuff4Sale]

Yeah, new EQ live stuff is actually challenging. I was impressed.

[Chunka]

Its challenging, but not the way it was. And there was a long time that it was not. My statement stands. And yes, I still play live....AND I tried Cata (wife wanted to be a Kung Fu Panda). No change there, still complete shit.

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