Charm/Aug/Progression Question

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[Bladethorn]

I am planning to go check out T5, but fully expect to get my can handed to me. I found an armor guide to T5 posted by Stad, but can't seem to find any guidance specific to my question below when searching other threads.

Was curious and looking for some guidance on what is viewed as a good benchmark for entering/surviving T5, specifically with regard to charms/augs on team and other required gear.. Kinda like an "In Retrospect" for you folks that have moved through it already.

For instance.. all aug'd dps should have min Sorc 41 charms. Pally's at Oracle 41/50. Make sure all strike aug slots are loaded with level 5+? Cleric critical. Complete all T4 upgrades.

I know that the answer to most of these questions is, "Sure, all of those things will help your survivability and make you better." But what I want to know is if there is some losely defined turning point and the equipment needed to take you to through that curve.

My main team atm is Sk/Pal/Pal/Rog/Bst/Mag. Been working in HoH a LOT lately, pilling up V2's/Coins/Epics, taking breaks to go PoA to collect T3/T4 pieces. I have no problems with T4 bosses now.. just have to watch pet positioning, etc.. when on Warlord. I am also pretty close to replacing my Mag with a Mnk. 

I've only got one UC (on SK), but getting close to second on Pally. Sk, Rog and Bst have a mixed bag of FS's NS's and some IS's all level 4/5 (I've got material to make more.. just need darn plat for ores). Whole team is 4.5 or 4.0 on epics.

As always, really appreciate any info, insight and opinions you guys can share.

 

[Warbash]

I would say minimum of UC and strike 5 augs for all classes in 6 man. I run 12 and have 2 clerics but I'm not sure if you have to have one in t5 when single grouping it.
I am also sure it's do able with less than all classes having UC as I did it, but too many deaths on the non UC characters every pull got tiresome.

[Brutality38]

I've never ran more than a 6 man core, only UC i have is pally, CLR's oricle is lvl 6 as of today, and i spank t5 easy

[Xiggie | Stone]

Replace both of your pet classes. Monk is a good choice to replace one with, they have solid dps and have good evasion. Replace your bst with a cleric. Yeah I know, you already have 2 paladins. Adding a cleric to the mix will help your survivability rate. Without UC on every character you are going to see a hell of a lot of frustration... and that is without even dealing with coral. This will go doubly so with you because you are not using a warrior.

Coral can really be a pain. They are rooted so they attack the closest thing to them. When you go swimming up to them with your guys all stuck to you and you attack it and then tell your guys to attack and they start slingshotting past the mob and then swim back in to correct and get closer than you and get whacked a time or two they are done without a UC. T5 is what convinced me to finally UC my cleric.

[Gannicus]

Just pinging in my 2cps here, I run war/pal/pal/rog/shm/bard and I have no problems in t5 and most of it with ease. Only 5+ aug I have on my team is the rogue with NS5. Only one of them is UCd and thats a paladin, who uses a FS3 - Still, no problem in t5. I really look at t5 as just how you want to fiddle and play around your characters

[Xiggie | Stone]

Yeah, but how long does it take you to kill in T5? That is one thing people don't plan for, the burn out effect. With 6 toons I kill trash in T5 in less than half a minute. This is with UC on my whole group, 2 toons for dps, 1 for tanking and 2 pallys and a cleric for healing. My dps is a monk and a bard. Everyone except the cleric had V augs, (monk has since been upgraded to VIII but when i was last in there he had V). If you are taking anything over a minute to kill mobs in T5 then you are going to be pushing the 4 hour time limit for getting your 4.5. I realize that if you spend a minute killing each of the 102 corals that that's only 1 hour and 42 minutes but when you consider everything you are going to bump into or have to clear because it is in the way that number will easily reach 150+. At 150 mobs that is nearly 3 hours of killing. That is not even considering travel time to each mob, piss break, smoke break or the random rez's your inevitably going to have to do. Boss popped? Yep, you're going to have to kill it it because it will despawn before you get done with all the coral at that slow pace.

Can you survive with less than this? Yeah, hell you can probably go in there and solo stuff with your UC'd pally or sk. I suppose he did ask how to survive it though. The advice I gave was how to be successful in the zone.

[Bladethorn]

Thanks guys.. I'm really looking forward to breaking into this zone and learning it.

Xiggie, thanks for sharing the timeline aspect and the build you use to be successful. That was absolutely a perspective I wanted to know... that bar, turning point, or line you have to be able to cross in order to take you over the hump and be successful against the timer. I see the parallel between what you and Warbash are saying.

Thanks Quaglin & Brutality, based on your experience, I think I am in a good spot to give it a go and experiment with my class makeup.

I think I'm going to try a hybrid while I work on a cleric.. pull up my War and try War/Sk/Pal/Pal/Rog/Mnk. Can't hurt right?

Thanks again

[Gannicus]

Yeah, but how long does it take you to kill in T5?  If you are taking anything over a minute to kill mobs in T5 then you are going to be pushing the 4 hour time limit for getting your 4.5. I realize that if you spend a minute killing each of the 102 corals that that's only 1 hour and 42 minutes

I take about a minute 15 secs or so to kill a mob in there -- I sometimes get white if I straight kill. Though with most of my team having killed white and have 4.5s I dont worry about that, I just try and get the mobs im needing for t5 completion. Yes your more efficent and can kill faster , but in a lot of ways if you take out having to spawn white, then that pace is fine and its worked for me, sure I get burned out because underwater fighting sucks but time wise its not the problem its just the zone burn out in general. While killing in there , you can get bags of plat too which can help afford the ore cost of augs and such which helps progress a long the way. I understand what your saying though in regard to speed

[Gannicus]

Bladethorn one thing you might want to consider while working on your team is a shaman or bard. If you have kraken on shm or tempest 3 on bard thats going to help your teams DPS a lot

[Nexxel]

There is alot of opinions as far as class make up and such, but IMHO you should have your main tank what ever class it is have a UC. then if your running a cleric get it a Oracle 50. after that it all comes down to preferance.

I'm running a War, paly, cleric, monk, monk, bard. and the war and paly are Uc'd and the cleric is a 50 oracle. the rest dont have anything more then a 5. And, as xiggie said, my other 3 toons without charms die, ALOT. as soon as im done with getting them there 5.0 im taking a break from the abyss and going back and grinding Ldon and HOH, and get them done.

[Chunka]

A bard with the right songs running makes a huge diff on pretty much any group. They add a lot to dps (keep in mind that even more than live EQ a bards dps is based on what they add to the group, not what they do themselves), a lot of survivability and the endo regen is spiffy. You may wanna consider dropping one of the pet classes and adding a bard.

Also.....been away for a while, but last time I worked T5 at all a UC warrior could take twice the beating of a UC SK. Still the case, or have things changed?

[Fugitive]

There is alot of opinions as far as class make up and such, but IMHO you should have your main tank what ever class it is have a UC. then if your running a cleric get it a Oracle 50. after that it all comes down to preferance.

1st Nexxel this isn't directed @ you so don't feel pointed at.

With just 1 UC and a few charms here and there.. all I can say is good luck in T6. 1st thing you will want to do after crawling hours and hours through T5 getting all 100 bosses.. is zone in to T6 and get FILLETED by the 1st trash and be shocked... Then Flame Hunter for the trash being to hard and to many HPs..

Then you will get to the 1st boss are realize all your mana is gone.. OH my!! So many Adds.. this fight is taking 20+ mins (shit with that set up maybe 40+ mins)



The bottom line is .. players are rushed all the way thru T4 and when they get to T5 they are empty other then Blank T4 Gear and a 4.0..The don't have a good understanding of what extras the goons need for the current Content..Hunter Said the UC is optional, I don't disagree with the boss much... but.... I want to see a raid of players 24-30 or so kill Mata without UCs. The DPS won't be there, the HPs won't be there. The only thing that will be there is a Pile of Players Corpses with Complaing goons... really the sad part is I'm Pretty sure said Raid wouldn't even get past AMV...

I would say Min upon completing T5 if you box a core 6 (which is a great number) UCs and Min Vs on all classes should be done also. Making Vs are cheap in the grand scheme of things. UCs get easier and easier to farm.. Honestly we will never be done with HoH and LDON. The players that are rushed through all this content feels like they are above grinding this tasks out lately, if you are in a big guild that does massive Raids you can get by with a lot of this missing.. But most are just squeaking by day by day..

Example..

Whispering - Great player still unable to get Mata done solo (at this moment), his team make up is solid just missing a few things here and there ( his team make up is 1000s of % better then most players that think they earned T5/T6 and bitching about the Hard Factor). Thanks Whispering I'm not picking on ya just pointing out.. Players need to invest a little more into their Toon or Toons.



PROS
-190 New spells up DPS across the board for all make up of groups
-A lot of People Rushing players so a big group of people in T5 (which I dont know why they all dont raid up and do Public Daily with 40+ would make the list get short quickly)
-PP Bags dropping in T5
-4.5+ Epics effects or Clicks are helping a lot.
-NO MORE ZONE CRASHES!
-UCs get easier to farm over time.
-ALL Classes can be viable in a group or Raid.


CONS
-A lot of People Rushing players through they end up having no idea what their toons really need for the Content they are at.
-Melee Augs VI, VII, and VIIIs are EXPENSIVE period. (I'm still shocked when I make a new one)


There are a lot of good group make-ups that can be fun, devastating and or Challenging up to you. I would honestly be done with my Core's UCs and Vs minimal before or right @ that 100th Boss from T5...

Example- Pimpns and myself were rocking T5 when it 1st came out.. oh yeah thats when the Alkari Charmed.. and all the other spells were on the mobs... but I felt very underpowered I was missing a few Augs here and there and I think 3 UCs..
I jumped out of T5 closed up my group fixed it came back BOOM BOOM...( of course my groups have completely changed @ least 3 to 4 times since finishing T5 but thats another story)

Have Fun and again this isn't a Flame to anyone so don't take it as such.

oh yeah.. you want a UCv2...!! trust me..

[Fugitive]

Also.....been away for a while, but last time I worked T5 at all a UC warrior could take twice the beating of a UC SK. Still the case, or have things changed?

There are a few good SK tanks floating on the server high end, but the mitigation a War(2h+SM+SoA+Cleric click+Cleric SW Spell) can give while losing DPS is worth it.. But WAR/SK/PAL are good tanks, as long as they are ready and investing into being Tanks.

[Gannicus]

There are a lot of good group make-ups that can be fun, devastating and or Challenging up to you. I would honestly be done with my Core's UCs and Vs minimal before or right @ that 100th Boss from T5...

I jumped out of T5 closed up my group fixed it came back BOOM BOOM...( of course my groups have completely changed @ least 3 to 4 times since finishing T5 but thats another story)

That's been my approach lately, I jumped out of t5 to finish UC on my second paladin for more dps basically. And while doing UC for paladin, im about 1/3 done with UC for warrior too from the scraps

[Dreyitt]

My first time into t6 i cleared/killed bozak then found out next day about how horrible instances are and couldnt get back in. Next day i cleared the whole zone and killed omm in about 12 hours. At the time i only had a uc 4.5 war w/ nothing like sm/roa/sceptre/shield. a pally w/ fs7s and uc and a monk with full 7s and uc. Along with those 3 i had a cleric 50 oracle, bard w/ 4.5s/full t5 gear nothing else enchanter full t5 for mezzing/buffs and a bst with 5.0 but no charms/augs and lastly my shaman to buff with who had 4.5. Needless to say its not required to be completely geared/filled out on every toon and with some determination you can kill stuff on the server far under what people say is required. My only advise here is to just try and see what you can do, you might surprise yourself what you can do.

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