Ultimate Weapon Discussion

hateborne

Legend

Posts: 2282

Don't nerf me bro!

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #60 on: April 09, 2014, 03:25:30 pm »

Quote from: Quaglin45 on April 09, 2014, 03:15:31 pm

Quote from: hateborne on April 09, 2014, 11:53:54 am

The damage is stupid high, bordering game breaking, but it's less problematic than the survivability stats.

If the white damage is game breaking then being able to play multiple groups is game breaking.

The damage as a whole. Please don't take it out of context.

-Hate


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I'm so sorry Hunter, I tried...

Expletus

Hero Member

Posts: 731

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #61 on: April 09, 2014, 04:12:10 pm »

Quote

Remove all current and future UW work including ultimate augs.

Den-

I agree completely that the UW "Line" should end now at 10 or 11 w/e the max is. However cutting off the UW quest completely and not being able to progress what I currently have is not fair at all to me and anyone else who is currently in the line. I understand you're at the end of the spectrum and it's all old news for you. If you were afforded the opportunity to progress it to an 11 then so should anyone else who has one... nerfed or not. Now if you haven't started the quest... that's on you... I look at that sort of like the Halloween event.


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Keeze

Raygan

Legend

Posts: 1151

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #62 on: April 09, 2014, 04:29:58 pm »

Quote

I'll say it again, the UW should have been level locked to T7+ because the linear progression path that existed before it did was entirely viable and a shitload of people traversed it before the UW gimped content.

Cant agree with this more. I think UW, of any level, should be locked out just like strike augs were, until you complete T7. T5 doesn't need an UW as that is the first zone that really challenges and needs to be tough to weed the shit-sorry players out of the gene pool. Shocked

Bringing the hitpoints down on the UW sounds like a good move too as long as t8-9 are kept in perspective. I don't want those zones to be a cakewalk; but as I stated earlier I would definitely expect a leg-up, having an appropriate level UW on current content, versus the person who is going into the same zone with the epic.


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Hate's Most Hateful Hater

Gannicus

Sr. Member

Posts: 319

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #63 on: April 09, 2014, 06:25:30 pm »

Quote from: hateborne on April 09, 2014, 03:25:30 pm

Quote from: Quaglin45 on April 09, 2014, 03:15:31 pm

Quote from: hateborne on April 09, 2014, 11:53:54 am

The damage is stupid high, bordering game breaking, but it's less problematic than the survivability stats.

If the white damage is game breaking then being able to play multiple groups is game breaking.

The damage as a whole. Please don't take it out of context.

-Hate

Well here is my problem with the white damage taking a hit. Sure things are bound to change, and in fact I think the HPs on it were always ridiculous , the HP wasn't my reason for striving for it. I thought hmm I can work really hard and get a UW that does the same dps as a full group of dps characters therefore all my resources, time, etc went into making the UW so that I didn't have to work on a second or third group. Now, as it stands a second group of dps will stomp the UW and all the resources I put into UW could've gone towards that group instead. Essentially in the long run the nerfing to white damage will do more bad than good. Since you said there won't be any returns if the UW becomes undesirable it seems to look uglier and uglier. I will however continue to try and stick it out to see the end result but not looking so pretty now if the white damage takes a hit.


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balidet

Master

Posts: 810

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #64 on: April 09, 2014, 06:47:10 pm »

Could we not make this entire issue go away with the introduction of UW mobs?

so you go into a new tier and you can progress or whatever as you like....but in a side room...is a billy bad ass mob...something extra for the UW holders...something horrible and ubber...with great rewards ...maybe takes 2 groups of bots with uw to take down..3....or just 1...

regular progress balanced for normal non UW ......check

ubber content for the ubber ubbers......check

think ancient wisp style mob....just over the top...

hell could be fun for the people doing the programming to just come up with ways to kill the ubbers.,..point being that you would not have to nerf anything....and content would be content...i don't think 2 bosses of bad ass per tier would be hard....have fun with it...


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red2

Full Member

Posts: 140

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2014, 07:26:30 pm »

memorial day 2013, i took the week off before to farm crystals. had 700 t1, and 120 t2. got my 100 t1 in maybe 5-7 hours. spent the next 13 straight hours just killing in t2. ended up buying my last 15 t2 essences that night. there was one period i got maybe 5 essences in 3 hours. so yeah t2 can be a bitch.


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Hulkpunch

Full Member

Posts: 147

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #66 on: April 09, 2014, 08:44:04 pm »

Quote

It would be much easier to uniformly advance the dps of characters since every character benefits from white damage melee increase, even casters that actively melee between spell gem refreshes.

Good point. Meleeing casters seems weird to me though, maybe procs/clickies would be a good way to balance their damage or maybe new ultimate spells? i donno.


« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 08:46:29 pm by Hulkpunch »	Logged

Gannicus

Sr. Member

Posts: 319

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #67 on: April 09, 2014, 08:46:15 pm »

Quote from: balidet on April 09, 2014, 06:47:10 pm

so you go into a new tier and you can progress or whatever as you like....but in a side room...is a billy bad ass mob...something extra for the UW holders...something horrible and ubber...with great rewards ...maybe takes 2 groups of bots with uw to take down..3....or just 1...

I actually like this idea, mainly because the UW was meant to STEAMROLL content, not get a little % addition i.e A+ for trying and investing your time. That would be a good move right there alone, allow for an UBER in each tier just one mob with special mechanics and (optional)*required* for UW holders that would give them a challenge, while letting them steamroll the content they rightfully deserve to steamroll because of the time invested in the UW. *Maybe even make it so if you are a UW holder you have to kill this UBER while non UW holders don't in order to progress into another Tier* ( I know there are ways to flag things as such ) just an opinion to go along with a pretty brilliant idea.


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Fuzzypoodle

Jr. Member

Posts: 71

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #68 on: April 09, 2014, 08:55:50 pm »

Well, I don't know how many times I have started a post then deleted it. However, I guess I will throw my 2cents out there.

First, I would like to give a quick rundown of my time back on EZ. Just about 10 months ago I returned and I will admit I returned for the UW. You know its the Holy Shit of an item and I wanted one. However, when I returned I had 6 toons that were t2/t3 geared.

Now, I have 13 toons all t9 flagged with RoA's 300 to 400, SoA-L, ALL strike augs are 10's, all uc2 working on 3's and a UW X. Before anyone says how the hell did I do that... Well, I didn't pay to win that's for sure. I have dedicated 12+ hours per day almost 7 days a week to get there. So with this inevitable topic I have done some major soul searching and reading of this thread and here is where I stand at this time....

I agree with Denzig, just stop the UW altogether, dumb down the hps starting a rank 6 250k and add 250k per rank there after ... UWXI = 1.5mil. Leave damage and proc alone. Not saying the quest should be removed but leave it there, no more ranks, no UA's, nothing just end it. This makes me think of the band aid we all dreaded to removed when we were kids ... 1... 2.. OUCH!!!! but has to be done.

Personally, I liked that Hate said something about a "True Epic Weapon", which I hope it means a stand alone system that can be done at any tier , use any tier and strikes augs but have more of everything else on it than it's tier skin. This seems more viable route to go and have a bigger return to the server longevity and health while giving us a really nice upgrade that will not break the game.

I have agreed with a lot of the posts here, but I do feel we are spending to much time on something that has broken our game. And if we all can accept that it has broken the game and no matter what idea's we have for it ... it still breaks the game. Maybe, then we can look at another route for those ubber weapons we want. Also, Hate could call them Ultimate Weapon 2.0!!!! might ease the pain )

Anyways, Just my 2 cants again, be safe everyone and see you all in game...

Fuzy


« Last Edit: April 10, 2014, 06:46:14 am by Fuzzypoodle »	Logged

Takishi

Full Member

Posts: 119

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #69 on: April 10, 2014, 07:34:18 am »

Quote from: Takishi on April 08, 2014, 01:48:49 pm

A ton of ideas have already been posted - however, I'd like additional stats if possible Hate.

Can you tell us how many people with 6+ chars from the same IP address that DO and DO NOT have an UW (both sides of the debate per-say)? IE - 120 people who play 6+ chars have at least one UW, while 145 people who play 6+ chars do not own an UW currently.

What I'd like to see is how many serious progression driven people do not have already own an UW. There will always be exceptions to every rule, but I believe this would be a great start to narrowing down an acceptable solution.

This info available Hate?


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Expletus

Hero Member

Posts: 731

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #70 on: April 10, 2014, 08:17:28 am »

I've read through this a few times. Clearly nothing will make everyone happy but it seems the HP drop, leave white dmg alone are mostly agreed upon.

I would like to see a number of people per IP with UW's and ranks.


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Keeze

Rent Due

EZ Server Admin GM
Administrator
Master

Posts: 776

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #71 on: April 10, 2014, 08:26:45 am »

this entire discussion boils down to one thing:

Time and Effort

time and effort put forth for an item in game VS time and effort put forth for what we are going to end up with for the progression of the server

I highly doubt anyone cares that much about the item as much as they care about the hours/days/weeks/months they spent obtaining the item.

never underestimate the gamer. Hunter put this item in as a carrot, not something he thought everyone would stop everything to get.

what happened is a few people got the item, linked it and everyone else saw an item that they had to have. So we all dropped all other projects to obtain said item.

this single carrot stopped the progression of everyone that wanted it. stopped aug progression, tier progression, everything.

so no one cares about the item as much as they want a representation of their time.

its kind of like buying a new car. we want XYZ car, so we work towards getting XYZ, then the car manufacture company says, well the car goes to fast so we are going to have to install whatever to limit that. well, that's not what I paid for. I paid for the fastest car on the market, thus, I want the fastest car on the market. if I paid X amount for the fastest car on the market and now its not then I want X amount back because its not what I paid for. *paid for is not referring to RL $$*

HP's have been addressed many times in this thread, mostly saying, its ok that the HP's are taken away if the mobs are dumbed down as well.

damage however is not something people want to see go away because then we have to add toons, or up toon power to equal

UW is an ultimate farming weapon above all else. its very nice to be able to back farm items without having to log in all of your crew to do so. Take T5 for example. its nice to solo T5 vs logging in 6 toons to do the zone. I believe this, above all is what the butt pain is about.

I farmed the UW to make it easier to back farm for augs, plat, etc. Take that away and why do I have the darn thing? Why do I need it anymore?

900 essences, 90 million plat and time could have net my crew full strike 9 augs easily. If my UW9 is going to become UW5 then id like to have 400 essences, 40 million plat, 4 EONs and 20 SLS back to make strike augs, or shields, etc.

current stats - future stats = net refund for a product I have to settle for, not what I purchased.

Time can not be given back, we all enjoy playing and that is not in play, but items are in play.

just thoughts


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Kaid

Newbie

Posts: 25

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #72 on: April 10, 2014, 09:30:21 am »

I just had a thought while reading Rent's post. Omitting a bunch in the quote...

Quote from: rent on April 10, 2014, 08:26:45 am

UW is an ultimate farming weapon above all else. its very nice to be able to back farm items without having to log in all of your crew to do so. Take T5 for example. its nice to solo T5 vs logging in 6 toons to do the zone. I believe this, above all is what the butt pain is about.

This gave me the idea to just lock out the UW from the top 1-2 tiers. Just make it so we can't wear it in those zones. Code is in place already, I think, in Overthere (if that's not what OT's code does, please correct me).

Then when a new tier comes out, you *could* remove that code for the lower tier. Or you could just leave it in place and we just can't use UW past whatever tier.

I also think that this should be coupled with a level limit on starting the quest. Should be at least in T6 or T7 before starting it, really.


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Expletus

Hero Member

Posts: 731

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #73 on: April 10, 2014, 09:44:02 am »

Locking out isn't an option in my opinion. These are progression zones and it's "Game on" type of scenario.

Hate - Could you possibly revamp some of the zones on the test server, either t8 or t9 then ask a few higher end players to come and raid one of those zones with a proposed UW they have on the active server? Get feedback that way? Test then implement !


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Keeze

Takishi

Full Member

Posts: 119

Re: Ultimate Weapon Discussion

« Reply #74 on: April 10, 2014, 10:52:23 am »

One change that was made to nerf damage in a way was to fix/implement the regen of mobs. If my crew of 12 can clear T8 in 1 hour with UW9, whatever changes are made shouldn't affect that.

If we go with the "old school" eq standards - we disable UW quest and keep it in game. Pre-nerf circle of shadows for example, cast time vs insta-cast. Just saying.


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