Upcoming Caster Changes (1-30-15)

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[balidet]

I disagree

[Ponzi]

Man, my beastmode laptop went paperweight on me so i took some time off and i come back to this. Wow.

Agree with a lot of what Maslow said above. Leave the effing UWs alone. It's a metric spitload of grind.. hence it's a cardinal sin to mess with it. Class specific? Is the zerker one going to double epic AE clicks? Actually, lets go right to the low blows-- Is the paladin one going to heal at pre-nerf levels? Is the druid UW going to cast pre-nerf skin with the old-school cool down timer? /rant off.

Altho i do agree with the idea that there were people clamoring for caster enhancement. Hell i was guilded with one. They'd log in for like two weeks straight every 4th month. Rant about casters in /ooc and on the boards, then disaf*ckingapper for another 3 months. Even charitably you can't call them the regular serverbase. But cest la vie, empowering the caster community is perfectly fine as long as it doesnt affec.... aww eff.. Look Virginia, it's a ship, and it's already sailed!

Lessee what else.. oh.. The real issue. Going beastmode Stacy Koon on druids with the LAPD nerf stick has another rippling water affect. It really makes those with 3+ zerkers tapout to their gag reflex because we at least need time to pull our hair back in a ponytail and relax the jaw muscles while we switch to raw single target dps or bring up some wizards or.. something..

seriously tho, /rantcompletely off.

This server has gone through some serious change since Hate and Akk took the reigns. a small portion bad, the vast majority good. The hardware capabilities skyrocketed. The UW nerf was handled with caution and reasoning and most would agree it went rather well (godmode sword becomes moar dps sword). The minis were a great 'reason to log in today and do something for a half hr while i figure out what i really want to do). Earring of Ages was a great item for higher ups to strive for and really booted the economy for the lower tiers. The implementation of resists (and especially the stones dropping in tier progression outside of TOFS) was really well done. Shield of Ages was a great addition and a neat side grind. Halloween was just.. incredibly well done and a weeklong experience ill always treasure looking back upon my time here.

Place is in good hands. I wish ya all the best. I'm sure i'll be back at some point when i get my beast laptop back from the geek squad.

P.S. I really found myself only using drake in t6 t8 t9. That said, the thought of grinding out 100 t8 essences killing one mob at a time makes me want to pound sand, reaaaaallly hard. Revisiting the drop rate on that one might be a worthwhile good faith showing. Just sayin.

Kiwis

[WatchYouDie]

I think you are misunderstanding what he was saying. He was talking more like class type specific. However the current setup gives all classes multiple options. Yes, 2-3 types are used the most it does give you options ... we like having options.

[balidet]

some overreactions are expected... in no way are you going to be single pulling when farming anything...farming is indication you are past the content ..I can easly pull 16 mobs in TOV for my group to kill with only a paladin as healer...

Do not lose your shit its not a single pull server now.

Stun is making pulling much harder now..without drake a stun on a pull of even 16 mobs ends badly

[Peign]

Positives:

Damage:

    Kaldar's Heavenly Fire is now 60k per target, across four targets, in three waves. Cooldown was increased to 24s. (Up from 24k and 12s CD)
    Kaldar's Heavenly Fire II is now 126k per target, across four targets, in three waves. Cooldown was increased to 24s. (Up from 60k and 12s CD)
    Static Burst is now 40k to all nearby targets. Cooldown was increased to 18s. (Up from 10k and 15s CD)
    Static Burst II is now 96k to all nearby targets. Cooldown was increased to 18s. (Up from 50k and 15s CD)
    Polarity Flux is now 20k to four targets. (Up from 10k)
    Polarity Flux II is now 48k to four targets. (Up from 45k)
    Polarity Flux III is now 120k to four targets. (Up from 100k)
    Shy Crustacean's Soul Eater is now 30k. (up from 5k)
    Shy Crustacean's Soul Eater II is now 75.6k. (up from 20k)
    Timeless: Tempest Wind is now 27.5k per wave, to four targets, across six waves. Cooldown was increased to 35s (Up from 7.5k and 16s CD)
    Timeless: Tempest Wind II is now 62.5k per wave, to four targets, across six waves. Cooldown was increased to 35s (Up from 37.5k and 16s CD)


All of this looks good.   Particularly whats in bold.

[hateborne]

Rent, damn fine post.

Peign, my schedule is much different from Hunter's. I don't have the ability to do what he did or even commit to small, timely updates as I have to do things outside of the server for a living (sadly...). As for the UW note and Breath of Nature, both struck out. To do you one better, Word of Vivification will be lowered (in recast) instead. :-)


Keep'em coming guys/girls/trolls!


-Hate

[Warbash]

Hate,
As far as healing is concerned I never use single target healing it's just a waste of energy when boxing and breath has a hard time keeping group up specially if doted in t8. Granted Druid only has uc1 so maybe a bad example but nerfing breath kinda seems unnecessary? Yeah skin like drake was awesome made t8 bearable to do
Seems like some cool changes
I don't get beefing up the wave spells though tbh, they only hit 4 targets and caster could be one if those 4. Does anyone even use those spells and would they even after these changed? Kaldars is useless in t7 and mostly resisted in T8. Not sure about the others.

Edit - you posted right before I posted

[Chunka]

Hi guys....weird day, passed out on the couch when I got home.

Interesting changes.....will have to see what the dynamic does. The druid changes are gonna hurt initially, because of how I've gotten used to killing in T8, T9....but I still believe they were needed. I like the increase to clerics, we'll have to see how they pan out.

Lots of viewpoints, and a lot to absorb. Will post more tomorrow (just woke up, and headed to bed ). But all in all the changes look pretty good. Thanks for the work, Hate.

Oh, and one thing that did stick out (and not trying to pick on anyone) but why are people still saying they get agro with the druid epic click? I got zero agro on my druid unless something went horridly wrong....and thats chain casting epic click during combat.

Agree that at the moment druids seem to have gone from top dog for heals to 3rd place overall.....but time and trial will tell.

And another thing I noticed....Hate's first item on the list may end up being overall the biggest healer nerf, and no one said a word about it. I'll have to see, but even with the big crit heals I get off the pallies, 20% reduction is pretty heavy.

[Peign]

Rent, damn fine post.

Peign, my schedule is much different from Hunter's. I don't have the ability to do what he did or even commit to small, timely updates as I have to do things outside of the server for a living (sadly...). As for the UW note and Breath of Nature, both struck out. To do you one better, Word of Vivification will be lowered (in recast) instead. :-)


Keep'em coming guys/girls/trolls!


-Hate

 Well, I would hope that many of us work.   A rare percentage of the world is independently wealthy and can have all leisure time.   Some work different hours or consulting allowing them more time to invest.     Anyway,  I would think that due to having less time, smaller changes would be a better thing.   That would allow you to fix it in timely manner if work or life takes you away.   Another option would be to get some more developers on board.   Actually this would be good, we need more developers with a voice to help guide the server.  A solid check and balance to keep the progressive policies firmly in check.  Hunter was good at work distribution and leveraging the assets he had available.   Also, a key aspect of time management is prioritizing.   Why spend time working on items that do not appear to be high priority?  I think casters are a high priority to 2 people that play here.   You (you don't play here though) and Aythena..... oh wait, she doesn't play here either, she just drinks a tall glass of QQ and spews it all over the server.   

Check out the book Getting Things Done by David Allen

    Unclear as to what you mean by UW and Breath of Nature striking out.      There is no need to change UW it is solid and offers options.        BoN, changes won't really impact anything just seems like 2 hits on a druid.       Did a druid cuckold you?   

The changes on the AoE dmg spells are nice though.    Just release those and all is good.   

[zymral]

Just a couple words here. I honestly dont think you can really help casters that much, the server just isn't a caster frindly place. You could make a caster an absolute overpowered mess and alot of people still wouldnt use them. Why? They just are not that box friendly. I log on to relax kill some stuff and advance. I don't log in to pull set attack and press the 4 key every second to hit 1/4 of my pull. Heck T2 bosses even spawn over 4 mobs at a time some times.

I like that you are trying to make casters viable but realisticly they just wont get played. They just are not worth the trouble.

[clbreastmilk]

Hate.  Would like a solid reason behind paladin heal change, if I am reading this correctly (a nerf).  As someone who uses them to heal my entire raid, I am not feeling this. 

Considering most people were using a druid simply for drake, wouldn't buffing all forms of other healing via other classes (not just cleric?) be the counter balance?

[balidet]

Not to speak for Hate or anything but the reason Druids got whacked is they where over powered...raising the other healers to a even level with them would just make them MORE overpowered..so no...all the other healers don't need to get massively buffed.

I am curious if this is going to effect the one true xp farm spot in the game for top end players...all them millions of aa's may be slightly slower than 10k an hour now aye?

Caster changes will not make me want to play my casters any more than I do now...

I played all day yesterday without my druid and its doable with just pally healing...I understand they are going to get nerfed as well.. I do not know if it will be as true afterwards... requiring us to have 2 healers is just going to push us to playing more groups...

[Digz]

are the changes to heavenly fire going to effect the mistress familiars? cause that would be......epic

its also funny...tower of vie i personally find to be just as powerfull as drake and can easily be used in the same situations to stop tank from dying while pulling and no one has ever complained about that spell

on a full (78%) stonewall tank its like a 45-50% migitation buff...T9 trash hits for like 20-22k or so with it up.

[hateborne]

Updated original post. Added clarifications on paladin heal reduction. Added missing new spells, Exorcise Evil and Exorcise en Masse.


Peign, what I meant was I removed them from the list and they will NOT go live.

zymral, I'm aware. I'm not trying to force casters upon you. As balidet points out later, if you don't want to play one, that's totally fine. I'm just making sure they too have a fighting chance as a viable group member.

clbreastmilk, the max value (read: ceiling) from the percentage heal is receiving the 20% reduction. It means the potential for EXPLOSIVELY high crits goes down slightly. :-)

balidet, to bring others up to druids, I'd have to give each character a buff that makes the tank invincible for nearly 30 seconds with a 30 second cooldown. In effect, I should just add the Drake proc to the UC since that would give everyone permanent invulnerability the same as having three healers with similar bonuses. Not being overdramatic, but Drake is just over the top. This should be the last time I have to reach into the past.

Digz, no it will not because I separated the proc for lag reasons. I created a clone of the Heavenly Fire for the Mistress that has no particle effect. They will NOT be scaled up as it would effectively turn a berserker with Mistress into highest AoE DPS possible. Add UW2h and damn near best DPS class possible. As for Tower of Vie, yes it is a situational goodness but shouldn't have 100% uptime and doesn't make the tank literally invulnerable by itself for nearly 30 seconds at a time.




-Hate

[Dimur]

A few observations regarding these changes.

1. Drake change is going to initially cause people to not bother playing them at all, and then they'll realize it's still the same spell for the most part except for the longer recast so people will just make 3 druids and we're basically right back where we were...full uptime potential on a spell that even at nerfed levels still will probably outheal incoming damage.  If you really want this to be a situational, oh shit type of spell but nothing you can use all the time regardless of the number of mobs beating on the tank then consider a better solution.  I'd suggest a more reasonable max hit counter, if you ideal mob pull is < 6 mobs or so then figure out how many attacks that number of mobs can fire off over the duration of the buff and make that the max hit count before the buff fades.  Pulling more mobs than what the intent of the spell is designed around would just make the buff fade faster, leave it up to the player to decide how they want to approach it.  Couple this with a short, oh-shit capable cast time of like .3 seconds so it can be fired off and give the druid time to start more conventional means of healing, make it a 60 second recast time similar to Vie's 30 second duration with 60 second recast time.  Hell, you could even make it a group castable spell just for added fluff, since mitigating damage on people other than the main tank is basically placebo at this point considering that rampage no longer exists in any form on this server.

2. The change to drake is undoubtedly going to have a negative impact on the number of mobs/hour people will be able to kill.  Don't get me wrong, with the proper setup, it can be negligible, but many of the people who use druids are set up to only use druids.  It's no doubt going to limit the kill rate for the majority of the population.  The drop rate of items like GSOA and AA crystals is certainly going to suffer, not to mention the incoming rates of AA.  The costs of AA associated items is ridiculously high in the current set up and either the rate of incoming experience needs to be boosted or the tiered cost of the upgrades needs to be adjusted downward.  Before anyone starts inferring that I'm looking to make my own grind easier, I'll just offer up that I am done with my ROA, I am 1 GSOA from being done with Earring and my mask is well into the 300's...I'm beyond the point of it impacting my game play at all.  I'm simply pointing out that these changes are going to have a negative impact on 99% of the players and mitigating the effect is something that should be seriously considered.

3. Good for casters, people that choose to play them should be rewarded for the extra effort required to do so but I can't ever see myself playing them seriously.

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