T10 Beta Testing Attempt No. 2! (9-8-15)

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[Kruciel]

Tried to break the gnoll camp again, shut the warrior down instantly, not going to bother posting the log. Archers are stupid.

Pulled 1 lone mob on the cliff, aggro'd 10+ and 6+ archers.

[balidet]

wrong thread but.......

why was rampage made 30 min cool down?  

was at least useful every few mins to clean up the almost deads....

It's not a 30 minute cooldown, it's a 4 minute cooldown, that shares a lockout with MGB. Trust me, if I could move my mask to another character I would, I like rampage too.

If yours is 30 minutes without using MGB, you're missing the AAs to reduce the cooldown.

you are correct... move on nothing to read here!

[Kruciel]

Final thoughts-

1. Rampage is silly, and is making most of the zone too annoying to attempt to pull to find out which mobs are the hard hitters.
2. The amount of damage the mobs deal mixed with the extremely high mob clusters is just too much pain. I suggest either spacing the mobs out a bit more (there's plenty of room in the zone) or reducing the damage of the certain mobs that are swinging for 700k+
3. The Sarnak Fort area is tuned very well, after spending another hour there. The named is very weak, but once you get a feel for the camp, you start to just look for the blackhands. They're the only hard hitting mobs in the area, and no more than 2 ever come together. Also the is NO RAMPAGE bullshit up there.
4. Archers are just going to make people skip those areas and farm the areas that don't have them, unless they need that spot for tier upgrades? They'll just be like the right half of oldcommons, nobody is going to go there    My suggestion is to just take away their perma-root status and allow them to aggro normally. You can leave in their ranged attack. Just having them shoot you on the way to your pull-spot will be scary enough.
5. Can't explore some of the areas of the map because of being blocked by hordes of mobs that all aggro together.
6. Respawn seems too fast. I can't even clear 1% of the mobs in the zone before repops. I'd slow it down a bit, it is INCREDIBLY annoying with how many pathers there are once you break into a camp. You constantly have respawns pathing up from behind you while you're trying to decide where to move / what to pull.

And lastly, I know I can't see the loot yet, but if this is the type of damage mobs are going to dish out, can we get an update to the type 23 Tier Augment slot in all of our armor? I know some people still use the 4k hp augments, but some of us gave up caring about 70,000 hp a long time ago. I'd rather have 1000 extra resists than a 0.5% hp increase. Could be a new version of the leaf of vitality, but fits the top slot in gear instead of the middle. 5k hp per rank, up to 50k hp at rank X.

And just a small fix, can Amplify Healing have the perma-buff upgrade? Pally focus healing and the Druid / Shammy t8 clicky are both permanent, but the cleric's still has to be refreshed. Not a big deal, just a quality of life change.

[Kruciel]

I'll come back and add more later after lunch. My first impression is still the same thing I told Hunter back when ToV had rampage: "If Ramp is going to exist in tiers to come, tanks stonewalls need to get reduced so mob damage can be brought in line to allow ramp. Tanks taking ~22% of the damage mobs dish out has made their base attack scale so high that no non-tanks can eat that damage reliably."

LOL I brought this up for years and the warrior kids cried that stonewall needs to be absurdly high. I'm glad to see that some one else is finally starting to realize that the math doesn't add up and it's to the point of all but tank get one-rounded. :-P

The arguments that cropped up were warriors scared of not being able to AA farm in Anguish. That's literally the only thing that makes the change scary on the player's end. Stonewalls being absurdly high means you can easily mass farm older zones for essences. So from the player's perspective the thought of nerfing stonewall is terrifying, so the easy way out was to remove rampage.

I assumed it would stay gone, and some wizard type mobs would take its place, tossing some aoe spells out that are easier to control the values of. I still believe that's the right choice of a 'raid damage' mechanic at this point. People are going to feel obligated to scale down their group size and run SOA + IG on all their melee if Ramp decides to come back, and even that won't be enough if you pull 3 or 4 mobs that all rampage.

In the end, right before Ramp was taken out, we were soloing ToV trash pulls on the warrior because none of our melee could live more than 1 second of a trash pull with more than 5 mobs in it. It was incredibly stupid.

[hateborne]

The CoH blocking is intentional. There is a portal system in this zone. Three distinct portals exists. Every 10-15 min one portal "opens" a gateway to another portal (randomly). This lets a player walk his/her group in and be shot across the zone quite easily. There is little to truly be stuck on.

Oh f..damn. If you don't have the updated zone file, that zone is probably very very barren looking. I'll reupload it today and be online later.

Aggro radius will stay rather large, but I can reduce/half the assist radius though to prevent zone pulls instead of group pulls.

The gnoll pathing will be tweaked, but the point to help prevent players from pulling mobs from the canyon floors.

Mobs mezzing themselves...I have no idea and need to dig in to today and fix.

Mobs fighting each other stays as it's mechanic related.

I'll triple check loot and likely set cash drops to something unnaturally high (1:5 for example) just to make sure it's working and as a reward.


As for Stonewall and rampage, it's going to be scary for a variety of reasons.

One being most people gear tank to the teeth and only aug/UC melee DPS. No use of resist or HP augs (or very little). This makes tanks much more durable. Now, compound that with ~80% stonewall and the mob damage has to be absurdly high to even touch tanks. This makes it ridiculously hard for melee DPS to withstand it. This leaves me with an almost fool's choice situation.

a) Nerf rampage damage or remove it, making it a useless and non-threatening mechanic.
b) Nerf Stonewall as a whole.

Realistically, option "B" can be useful as I can lower all Stonewall across the board to a cap of ~40-50% instead of ~80%. With that, mob damage starting at T4 and above could be lowered as well, so melee have a chance without NEEDING Halloween pets to survive.

I digress and this is relevant, but beyond the scope of this beta test. :-)




-Hate

[Kruciel]

One being most people gear tank to the teeth and only aug/UC melee DPS. No use of resist or HP augs (or very little). This makes tanks much more durable.
-Hate

Well that's their fault for being mega lazy   here's the sheet I've been using to track my team ever since t9 came out~

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EKw9y5ixMkZ2Tkxjz0KCGG_wvA_EvgiVIzjPKd_h-9U/edit#gid=0

No excuse not to work resists with the bulk combine 8 stones recipes in. Every two clears of floor 7 yields a resist 10 stone.

Also, I've looted every leaf I ever found aside from the ones in t9 chests. I usually just kamikaze into a camp, /open the chest and clicky Fading Memories to check for essences. I don't feel like moving my team from the lake, clearing the area, and trying to snag the leaf. I'll get them from the rest of the UC3 farm 

[hateborne]

Mass Group Buff (with reboot) no longer shares a cooldown with Rampage. Mass Group Buff shares a cooldown only with Origin (as it's a mostly useless AA with no other items in it's cooldown group).


-Hate

[Warbash]

This zone sounds exciting:) wish I had time to play

[Mixlor]

Nice one Hate on the MGB cool down fi!. Now maybe Kruciel will shut up and be happy. Lub you Kruciel!

Mix

[balidet]

awesome sauce...

[hateborne]

Also, I've looted every leaf I ever found aside from the ones in t9 chests. I usually just kamikaze into a camp, /open the chest and clicky Fading Memories to check for essences. I don't feel like moving my team from the lake, clearing the area, and trying to snag the leaf. I'll get them from the rest of the UC3 farm 

The part in red is why Fading Memories is blocked in T10 (at least for a goodly while). I am very aware of the implications this has for DPS and threat, but the new AA should be helping with this deficit.


-Hate

[Kruciel]

Well, unless warrior gain 15 mil HP and Skin of the Drake 5 comes out, that strat won't be working in t10 for a few tiers anyways lol

[Raygan]

a) Nerf rampage damage or remove it, making it a useless and non-threatening mechanic.
b) Nerf Stonewall as a whole.

Realistically, option "B" can be useful as I can lower all Stonewall across the board to a cap of ~40-50% instead of ~80%. With that, mob damage starting at T4 and above could be lowered as well, so melee have a chance without NEEDING Halloween pets to survive.

I REALLY like this idea....I just have to wonder how much of a pita it would be to go and change all this in every zone t4-t10.....btw did I say I liked the idea?  I still hate joo though, Hate!

[WatchYouDie]

there are proper ways to combat rampage .... wild rampage is a different story ... but as i stated before reduce or put a - dmg mod on wild rampage. ... i see a lot of work to revamp the stonewall system .. with how long t10 has taken to come out i would say it might take just as long to convert/adjust the current system when there are other options.

[Kruciel]

there are proper ways to combat rampage .... wild rampage is a different story ... but as i stated before reduce or put a - dmg mod on wild rampage. ... i see a lot of work to revamp the stonewall system .. with how long t10 has taken to come out i would say it might take just as long to convert/adjust the current system when there are other options.

Plain old Rampage can be both a single target attack to the 2nd person to engage the mob or an AOE hit to all around the mob in a full 360 degree area. If only the Single target version was added, this would not be a raid damage mechanic  or anything to worry about healing. It would just mean you have to swap one of your knights to tank mode and gear a 2nd tank up. While that would still be mildly annoying, we're referring to the AOE Rampage being unfit for the current state of EZ.

Also, even if it was the 2nd target to engage only, having 3-4 mobs all doing it while in one pull is still a bit excessive to even try and worry about your melee engaging at different intervals.

I believe you are confused in thinking that Rampage in t10 is the single target only version of Rampage. Pre PoP, it was like that yes. Post PoP Rampage hit for full on AOE.

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