FG/CG Items No Drop?

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[Darkest]

I very much agree with the idea of making these items drop in other zones, maybe the key to this is not to make them drop off a specific named, but rare random drop in a zone, made lore so people dont accumulate masses of them.  This gives the option of camping a named mob (say lguk), or fighting random mobs in say fungus grove for the same item to drop?

Nine

[Studmuffin]

- Non-boxers will no longer be able to get help in Qvic/LDoN except by random chance from a helpful stranger/guildy. They will be stuck at 1.5 or 2.0 until people start focusing on grouping in the early tiers (in the meantime, we'll see a lot of people quit instead of wait for this shift.)

Oh wait, you mean people will have to interact with one another and join together to accomplish what they could not do alone? What a concept!

Seriously I think the whole 'buy Qvic progression' system is a hobble around the neck of the community on this server. No one groups before Tacvi huh? GEE I WONDER WHY...

Make Items Drop From More Mobs In Unused Zones
- Spreads the camping out to account for higher population
- Can give some population to currently empty zones
- Gives no specific advantage or disadvantage to any one section of the population
- Becomes a measurable and controllable increase in droprate so as not to trivialize or over-flood the server with supposed-to-be-semi-rare drops. Which is what instancing does.
- Does not disrupt trade/run farmers
- Is expandable to a 3rd or 4th mob if the need arises
- Doesn't require you to be rich or multibox or anything
- End Result: All players get equal global droprate improvement, no specific advantage to one- or multi-boxers without breaking rules (multi-boxers hold both camps with their characters,) no disruption to the "economy" of the server, apart from a measured increase in drops.

In case you couldn't tell, I prefer the latter option

This could work maybe... If you add at least a couple camps per item. Or better yet make it a random drop of a specific mob type in the unused zones so that it becomes impossible to 'permacamp' anything.  If this is the route you go I'd suggest making them lore as well, chose mobs that aren't trainable or spawn mixed with a lot of other mobs to prevent mass killing for farming purposes. Uncommon but not rare mobs with a very rare drop would be perfect, something like the griffins in NK with a drop rate that will end up making it take about the same time as the average cap in lGuk as the item it's replacing... Making them lore would help this a little but since there's no limit to boxes it's still possible, just more of a hassle for the farmers, which in turn deters them from ruining it for the rest of us.  Of all the options available I think this one is the best, You've convinced me Razormaw.

[Razormaw]

I'd honestly like to see more people group up and tackle things together. There's a very fine line between encouraging and forcing it, though.

Sadly, until more people play clerics outside of multi-boxers that don't play with others (nothing against them, just saying) we aren't going to see much of it

I'm thinking of leveling a cleric up to play with others, and I try my best to help clerics I see. But there's not many out there!

[walk2k]

Nuska, lots of people have asked for LDON instance, the problem is how instances work now - if you leave the zone and come back it repops.  This means 15 min boss spawns now become 1 minute, or as fast as you can camp out to the char-select screen and come back.  I'm sure you can see a problem with that - basically you'd have people getting ultimate charm(s) in 1 day, not really what was intended.

IF they can fix that issue, I'm sure LDON will be considered for instances.

Also like I said, the items in LDON (cards and tokens) are no-drop, so you don't see people camping items to sell, which is the main issue here.

IMO get the cost and time limits of instances worked out  (and ffs make GROUP instances, not everyone is in a guild or wants to be, lower guk isn't exactly a raid zone for level 70's with 40k hps..) and this issue will be solved.  All the other ideas about making new items/etc are good but I'm sure require a LOT more work - this is a good solution, at least for the short term.

[Isaaru]

Now that I've read a few replies I really like and would prefer the utilization of alternate zones/npcs for the drops.  There are hundreds of zones available and editing loot tables takes seconds.  Use zones tailored to similar levels to alleviate the issue of people swarming to the easier zones or intentionally use various level range zones to encourage the not-aa-capped people to farm a few aa's or level some alts while they camp fg/cg items.  With this change in place there should be no need to make the items lore/no-drop.

[Reed]

btw the thing with unused zones, most are not populated when you put them up. without packet collecting live you would have to make each mob, place them, make a loot table, etc.. lotta work to ask for just on the fly.

i know velious and before are all pre populated, would have to use zones like Great Divide or something if anything, but still alter loot tables for mobs. Akkadius is pretty pro with queries, but would still take a little bit of effort

[nuska]

****b has to be me (nuskb)! woohoo. These items were farmed for bots NOT for runs. Shame you would think a 6+ boxer with a 110k  unbuffed tank couldn't do these runs on own.

I'm just gonna stop arguing to keep these cg/fg items the way are atm. These go to no drop and the higher end people will start to camp these more. The problem will still be there if made no drop but my guess it would be worse. People have offered 100kp + to get qvic runs so i hope noobs start farming up the money.

[zomgDanyelle]

btw the thing with unused zones, most are not populated when you put them up. without packet collecting live you would have to make each mob, place them, make a loot table, etc.. lotta work to ask for just on the fly.

I can do this for Hunter of course i would need a tool to extract everything thats necessary to an sql. I can't dump the ENTIRE table for him and writing the queries by hand would take ages X_X. There used to be a tool for this but it's a few years old, no longer compatible.

P.S. Packet collects are already stored on PEQ's site, easily sourced. Not all the zones and no loot tables, but it takes 1 day to do 1 zone from packet collect sourcing to clean up work, stat modifying and loot table making. maybe less if you're fast.

[Isaaru]

btw the thing with unused zones, most are not populated when you put them up. without packet collecting live you would have to make each mob, place them, make a loot table, etc.. lotta work to ask for just on the fly.

i know velious and before are all pre populated, would have to use zones like Great Divide or something if anything, but still alter loot tables for mobs. Akkadius is pretty pro with queries, but would still take a little bit of effort

There are at least 100 zones that ARE populated and just need the loot tables swapped.  From classic to GoD/OoW I'm sure we can find 10-15 available zones.

Also of note, there are quite a few people in the community with server admin and/or sql knowledge who could help.

[Reed]

These go to no drop and the higher end people will start to camp these more. The problem will still be there if made no drop but my guess it would be worse.

During the week i have nothing interesting to but camp and destroy stuff, would be the same bottleneck... just one caused by and irritated player instead of a farmer.

[zomgDanyelle]

btw the thing with unused zones, most are not populated when you put them up. without packet collecting live you would have to make each mob, place them, make a loot table, etc.. lotta work to ask for just on the fly.

i know velious and before are all pre populated, would have to use zones like Great Divide or something if anything, but still alter loot tables for mobs. Akkadius is pretty pro with queries, but would still take a little bit of effort

There are at least 100 zones that ARE populated and just need the loot tables swapped.  From classic to GoD/OoW I'm sure we can find 10-15 available zones.

OoW is just beginning to be populated on PEQ, also remember how old this server is, due to the custom npcs the npc_types table hasn't been updated since it was made (it would over write custom mobs) so EZ's populated zones don't go as high as PEQ currently does, PoP or Ykesha at best.

Also there's something you guys are missing... you all notice the items used in the guild quests were popular items on Live way back in the old days and that they drop off the old mobs right? If SSoY starts dropping in freaking Wall of Slaughter it defeats the point of the quests.

Now Hunter could make an alternative quest, with popular items from Luclin-PoP or GoD-OoW... all he has to do is populate the zones (as i said...easy) and copy/paste the current guild quest and change out the item ids for the new items on a new quest npc in Nexus. Done. Not as hard as you would think.

Also: Packet Collects: http://www.projecteq.net/logs/ complete with variables that can be preset to ensure no over writing. Hello "2 minutes for new populated zone"

[Reed]

very nice show dany, great as ever

gonna bookmark the packet collector as well. never know when it could be needed

[zomgDanyelle]

As a fair warning Reed none of those npcs in the zones have loot tables, they all have default stats (like 6k hp) so stats would need modified, and they don't do the full spawn rotations (PH's etc, it only collected what was up) nor is there any merchant ids or quests (obviously as quests are perl scripts not held in database). HOWEVER it does collect mob pathing, all currently spawned mobs and their sizes/textures/weapon graphics (of course said weapon graphic may just be an item that was equipped at time of packet collection) and all the doors/elevators/objects/ground spawns etc in zone. Thus each sql file isn't exactly a "zone in a box" but it does shave days off the population process, all you have to do is clean up the mess.

P.S. it also has a habit of collecting people's mounts, so...delete those after sourcing or you'll have "Herman's Mount" running around in the zone

[Reed]

Yeah i was on the phone with Akkadius last night, he was telling me about that kinda stuff lol.

He was telling me about queries and how they work. Would be easier to fix a specific zone with loots that way, granted its not the easiest thing in the world for everyone (as i havent messed with it yet, just he explained it pretty well and made it seems pretty "user friendly" heh)

like you said, mobs, pathing, buildings, doors, etc.. all included. just loots stats and all that would be needed.

[zomgDanyelle]

Aye, very useful. They even got some Underfoot zones up there already O.O

And it really does save a lot of time. To give an example it took me ONE day to fully populate Wall of Slaughter and Fortress Mechanotus both. Just modified the stats, then created the missing named, added them to the spawngroups they were supposed to be a part of (using the mob that was already there as a PH) added PH's for named that were already up, and made loot tables. Bam, 2 zones, 1 day, fully made and ready to go.

The variables you gotta be careful with though. For example you gotta add +1 to whatever the last id in the table is, for example if the last id in npc_types was 12345 make the variable in the sql read 12346 so it doesn't delete anything. Also @StartingSpawnGroupID and @StartingSpawnEntryID should be the exact same id or it won't spawn properly (i messed that up first time and had steamworks spawning in WoS and Ukuns in Fort Mech @_@)

Anyway back on topic lol.

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