T7 Discussion (Merged)

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[Hunter]

It could also be said why put the "God Mode" items in the game if everything is going to be tuned to the point they no longer offer an advantage.

This is the key to it all!  Over the last year, things keep getting tuned to the folks with the gods items.   Fugitive is a machine! A few guilds are machines!  Awesome that they have the god items! They deserve it for sure spending that time to get it!    But the other 90% of the server aren't them.   If these folks can't survive in a tier with all these 'god items'...how in the hell can the other 90% who play here survive? Ever!  Since the other 90% of the server aren't them, how many years is it going to take for a player to get a single one of these items?

People of this caliper 'should' be able to go back and rape tiers.  That's natural cause and affect.   Changing things over and over to compensate a few folks godliness is asinine. 

They sure as hell deserve the gear they have, but at the same time the content in the game can not be geared specific to that.   

They deserve the right to be god mode from the time they spend and the rest of the population shouldn't be punished for it.

cheers

Drep

I'm not exactly tweaking end game for someone to have max RoA, max SoA, max Charm, etc.

It's just a guessing game how much lesser geared players can handle without making it too easy for max geared players.

[Brokyn]

The original discussion was in http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=3698.0

I'd like to start a new discussion to help Hunter with tuning T7 for the current player base.  If you have something negative to say, and you don't have a suggestion for a solution, take it somewhere else.  This thread is for productive discussion of ideas to make T7 work, and hopefully to balance things going forward from here.

[Brokyn]

I went into T7 again today after the changes.  I am thinking that the level of difficulty that is there now might be suitable for T8.

If I pull more than 1 mob, the spam from spells casting from them is unbearable.  I resist them all now with UW and UC2 and SoA added heroic resists, as expected.  However, the rest of my team who all have UC2 and full T7 gear are not resisting at a very good rate.  I can't pull a train of 5 mobs because half or more of my toons get rooted.

There are a couple of things I would like to see...

Firstly, if Hunter and possibly Hateborne have the time, I would like to see a more comprehensive list of NPC spells for the game.  SKs should cast SK spells, Rangers should shoot arrows, Wizards should nuke, and Enchanters should try to mez, Warriors shouldn't cast spells, etc.  Currently there seems to be 4 or 5 spells in T7 and every mob, caster, or warrior or SK casts all of them.

Secondly, I think the NPCs are still casting far too often.  I would think that cutting the casting in half at least would be a good start.

Thirdly, I think the resists need to be further adjusted.  I am still under the impression that if you have level appropriate gear (ie T6 gear for T7) that the content should be doable with some level of comfort (ie pull 1 or 2 too many and survive if you are good, pull 4 or 5 too many and res and regroup).  I can't test with certainty because my toons have T7 gear, and UC2s, etc, but I am certain that T6 geared toons would get completely owned in this current set up.

As it stands now, the content up till 2 days ago seemed to be fairly close to balanced out, because the spells were not being used.   I would request that Hunter consider returning T7 to the way it was a few days ago, but add spells to the bosses, not the trash.  It would increase the difficulty, without increasing the time commitment required to get to where the reward for the hard work is (you have to pretty much clear the zone to start to reap the rewards).  Then, implement the new resists, and spell sets on NPCs in T8, remembering that T7 geared players without all the "optional" gear should be able to function there =)>

Please discuss...

[fjamso]

I think the idea was to get resist augs in ToFS?

[hateborne]

Petty Note: We don't need everyone creating new threads for everything, especially when the previous one was the exact same topic. :-P


I tried this before with ToFS mobs. I built spell groups for all the NPCs with spells out of the ~400 spells I've written (just with higher resist mods and scaled up damage). They never got attached to the NPCs. Setting up the NPCs to use class specific spells isn't overly difficult, but it's a bit tedious to initially set up. It can be done, but I simply don't have the time to rebuild entire environments anymore to keep testing things and building turnkey files. New spells or damage adjustments can be made with a bit of math and a collection of info from spells near in content level (read: tier). They only need a trivial amount of testing time to ensure they work as desired and the damage scales correctly. Building entire groups of mobs without having any info will essentially require Hunter to manually 1-by-1 each npctype in the zone to attach the npc_spells ID to them.

I could easily build them here at work with a pretty large portion of DB (specifically, ENTIRE npc_types, npc_spells, npc_spells_entries, spawn2, spawnentry, and spawngroup). Even then, anything that is script spawned will need to be manually fed to me (the bosses in Abyss for example, I would need their name and/or npc_type ID; any custom zone T3+).

Even for older content with the info above, diverse npc_spells groups could be built for mobs. This would change mobs from "procing" spells to actually casting. This would also allow a recast timer to be set on them.

As always though, it's Hunter's sandbox. We're here because he decides to let us play here.


-Hate

[hateborne]

Actually, on second thought: some of the lower content zones are fine. PoD and HoH come to mind. Though T3/T4 bosses could use some class diversity (separate the bosses into classes with class-specific spells), same with T5 bosses, and I'm guessing T6 as well.

Anywho, let me know. I am still waiting on some info back from the bossman to continue writing up all the nonsense for the spell research system.


-Hate

[Hunter]

I think I'm working with npc proc spell values that are too high. For example 15-25% chance per melee hit to proc spell, and if mob hits 4x in 1 round, then thats 100% chance to cast something.

The spells are fine, maybe just casting too often. Will lower to maybe 3-8% depending if boss, etc.

Also, after a specific certain spell is casted by the mob, there is however a re-cast delay before that spell can be casted again. So it might currently seem like the trash/bosses are unleashing ALL their spells in first 5 seconds, then 30-300 seconds until next recast.

Anyways, will play with the proc chance on mobs, make it much lower which should help.

I agree, mobs should have their own set of spells to make it more interesting. Just takes more work. I bet after we do this once then we can scale the damage on the npc table and use the same SK spell list for all SK mobs in all tiers, and same for Clerics, Wizards, etc. Several people suggested this already, including maybe hate.

Thanks for bearing with us during tweaking of new spells etc.

About ToFS - Stone of Heroic Resist
ToFS should help a LOT with resist. I don't expect anyone to get a Rank 20 Stone of Heroic Resist, but ranks 5-10 would be reasonable. The aug fits in ANY slot. So how many slots does all your armor have total? Over 50 possible slots? If just rank 5 stone is in each slot at 25 Heroic Resist each, then x50 that would be 1,250 additional resist to what you already have! Now if you have just the basic armor (No UC, No RoA, No SoA, No Mana Necklace, etc) then your base 600 Resist + 1250 would be 1850 Resist from from using rank 5 stones from ToFS. I'm not setting end game tiers to be balanced towards ToFS, but I am making ToFS stuff to make end game easier. With all the different Ranked Items that give Heroic Resist now, should be fairly easy to get very high Heroic resist without having to have a max rank anything, just add up the low to medium ranks of everything to get decent resist. Hope makes sense.

I'm going to lower the chance to cast on all mobs in ToFS and T7 b a lot more, probably 1/2 of what its currently doing, see how much that helps out. I don't want every mob to be melee warrior not cast anything else that'd get too easy, esp for the afkers.

[Hunter]

Moved my post to here:

http://ezserver.online/forums/index.php?topic=3705.0

[Natedog]

All spells are melee procs? Or do they have a melee proc and spells?

[Hunter]

Its sort of like a melee proc.

Each time mob swings, there is chance of it casting a spell.

I can even add spell cast time and mana cost if I wanted.

And there is re-cast time.

So yeah, when mob swings, thats when the game decides if the mob will cast.

[Raygan]

Guess this is where this topic should go...I think you need to take out whatever spell is knocking toons all over the zone in T7.  I understand making the zone more challenging but my toons keep getting flung into mobs all over the place and aggroing more stuff.  The changes are making content more aggravating not more challenging.
(moved this post to here as this is a better place for it)

[Brokyn]

If you are planning to leave T7 spells in place, I would ask that you increase the respawn time to 8 hours from 4...  My clear time for the zone has doubled, and I have very little time to work on bosses before a respawn, in full T7 gear, etc, etc...  A new crew into T7 won't have a prayer.

[Brunaa]

I fully agree with Brokyn

[Brokyn]

Also, in a related topic...  Can you add subtract 10k from the resist for Mark of Emperors/Mark of Karn line, so we no longer resist the heals from our Cleric's spells

Thanks

[Fugitive]

If you are planning to leave T7 spells in place, I would ask that you increase the respawn time to 8 hours from 4...  My clear time for the zone has doubled, and I have very little time to work on bosses before a respawn, in full T7 gear, etc, etc...  A new crew into T7 won't have a prayer.

Got 2 full groups and they all get whacked and I run overhealing parties... this is sad can't even go back.to T7 with full T7

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