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[hateborne]

Thought this might be useful to reference... full thread here

I'll run queries against DB tonight and post the numbers of UWs and their ranks (full breakdown).


-Hate

[Fugitive]

Chunka and Blarr hit this on point

The current trend is purchasing your way to end game (and it being easy enough that any can do)

T10
Needs to be in a sense a return to the gut checks and randomness that is EZ.

It needs to be similar to T5 (no water though), and by similar I mean task driven present for the kills and awarded the gear through the task system (this ends all the players gearing 1 toon 3-5 tiers above everything else in their party or their guild.

All future Tier Essences = no drop

It has to be re-re hard, hard doesn't have to mean long winded but has to be challenging some examples (will edit later)
- Massive debuffs
- NPCs that cast some form of Muting spell
- Places where all buffs are stripped
- NPC casting some sorta zone teleportations to the players or raids
- Zone repop (from Boss)
- Some type of "Help me mode" (Boss calls every mob within XXXX distance)
- Factions where if you choose to kill this, IT will take a long time to repair and you will have to repair it cause you need something that they give too.
- Task driven for any Boss Kills and Loot awards (gotta participate to get geared)
- Make it so 1 player cannot solo(self group or self raid) there i.e. events happening that that player cannot manage his/her toons to be successful.
- Make it so the free waypoint click does not work for T10 for the 1st 6 months ( there is instances but will cost ya like the millions I spent on T6 instancing)
- Triggers and massive wave fights
- Aggro triggers on boss fights ( some form of meh, F your DPS.. or F your healers..) if Im a mob and sitting there fighting a raid force and this warrior isn't going down.. cause I see this dumpy ass dwarf cleric healing him.. I'm going to put 2 and 2 together and smash that dwarf.
- HP/Resists/DPS/AC/Healing gut checks or some variety of them from Boss to Boss.
- No Double Loot in this zone 1st 6 months
- No safe area ( zone out if you want to afk, this will prevent a lot of the leeching )



I a lot of players will be like "I don't have the time to do all that" ... or "what about the guys that don't have much time to play (low game time).

Shrug no love here.  Hunter's words mean a lot still to me... not everyone will be end game but possibly can get there through time and help.

Not everyone should instantly be maxed gear overnight just cause that said tier was released yesterday. If you can't invest a lot of time, the enjoy all the stuff leading up to it and slowly get through it. This instant reward stuff has gotta stop sooner or later.


Then as always tweak it 6-8 months later to make it a little more accessible to others (just like Hunter did).


Again, Blarr and Chunka hit all high points. There has been Plenty of time to grind your goon squad out and get UC/SoA/and name your trinket here. It needs to aligned with needing XX to kill XX.. rather that be HPs/Resists/DPS/Healing ...

[Darpey]

The current trend is purchasing your way to end game (and it being easy enough that any can do)

I don't really see this as an issue... there's a limit to how much you can "purchase" your way to end game, and there are stops on this. IMO this isn't an issue, even though I see several players reference it. Yeah it happens... a little... but I don't see the problem.

Needs to be...

It needs to be...

All the humility of the past posts went out the door with this one... Seeing a lack of "IMO"s in this post.

It doesn't NEED to be like T5 (though I do like T5 and that's one way to do it), but that's one of many ways that would work

All future Tier Essences = no drop

Agree

some examples (will edit later)
- Massive debuffs
- NPCs that cast some form of Muting spell
- Places where all buffs are stripped
- NPC casting some sorta zone teleportations to the players or raids
- Zone repop (from Boss)
- Some type of "Help me mode" (Boss calls every mob within XXXX distance)
- Factions where if you choose to kill this, IT will take a long time to repair and you will have to repair it cause you need something that they give too.
- Task driven for any Boss Kills and Loot awards (gotta participate to get geared)
- Make it so 1 player cannot solo(self group or self raid) there i.e. events happening that that player cannot manage his/her toons to be successful.
- Make it so the free waypoint click does not work for T10 for the 1st 6 months ( there is instances but will cost ya like the millions I spent on T6 instancing)
- Triggers and massive wave fights
- Aggro triggers on boss fights ( some form of meh, F your DPS.. or F your healers..) if Im a mob and sitting there fighting a raid force and this warrior isn't going down.. cause I see this dumpy ass dwarf cleric healing him.. I'm going to put 2 and 2 together and smash that dwarf.
- HP/Resists/DPS/AC/Healing gut checks or some variety of them from Boss to Boss.
- No Double Loot in this zone 1st 6 months
- No safe area ( zone out if you want to afk, this will prevent a lot of the leeching )

Some great ideas... Love it

I a lot of players will be like "I don't have the time to do all that" ... or "what about the guys that don't have much time to play (low game time).

Sure there should be a difference between a guy with 6 UW11's and a person with UW8... but we shouldn't just say "F&#* YOU" to the guy with UW8... since he only put in 60 played days into his character instead of 120...

There has been Plenty of time to grind your goon squad out and get UC/SoA/and name your trinket here.

As a person that has UC3, UW10 (closeish to 11), SoA max, UC2x5 (sure that's not impressive by many standards, but it's all relative... that stuff takes FOREVER to grind... I'd like for T10 to be hard by its own merit, not that you have to spend another 10 play days grinding various items and THEN you can get to T10... it's a balance... which isn't to say that you should be able to minimally poke through T9 then conquer T10 in a day... i think it should be hard as Hell... but I think you're overdoing it

XOXO
- Darpey

[Fuzzypoodle]

I really like some of the ideas bouncing around.  When we have these discussions it really boils down to play time.  EZ has always been x time = x rewards.  What we always see is that people who can only play 4 to 6 hours a day versus those playing 16 or more a day.

In 2013 when I returned, I did at first feel sort of overwhelmed at the projected hours needed to be fully equipped. However, 10 months later I had 17 toons t10 flagged with all the goodies to go with it.  Now, as some read that statement they will say no way in hell, others will say yea it can be done.  I played 6 days a week and 14+ hours a day.  So keep that in mind guys because we all don't have the same play hours per day. Also, no mmo that I know of has ever said, lets make this easier for those that cant play a lot of hours.  Anyway, just wanted you all to remember that its all time versus rewards.

With that said I do agree with Blurr, Chunka and Fugitive.  Cant wait for t10 thou 
Off to finish my last 4 uw's in my main group 

[Premador]

I like a lot of fugitives ideas but the casual player needs some love too. Like I said not looking for easy, just looking for the opportunity to do what the end gamers can do in a longer time period. Making T10 and expecting someone to commit to 4+ hours to do anything beyond gain xp is only catering to a small group.

[Claytin]

I disagree with making it so one person and their box squad can't do it. Some of us may work with others but seems most guilds are one person and this doesn't seem to be a server where we work with each other on zones. I get annoyed with most of you in chat, can't imagine how annoyed I'd get working by your side...j/k kind of. UC seems to be spaced out between tiers, I don't see the rush for UC4 in T10. I like the Halloween boss set up. You kill one you might get another and you might get another after that but nothing is promised. T9 was better with taking effort to getting gear but still easy. Boss 1 wrists, boss 2 arms/hands and so on with 2nd to last being bp and last being epic book. No matter how much people piss and moan about it's too hard to get a bp or epic keep it challenging and drawn out. I got all that quickly and T9 and have been bored for awhile. Gearing a group in a day, shit, be happy to gear a toon in a week. Another idea is like the old school Naggy/Vox raids but not sure how you'd bring the same feeling of then to what we have now. While were at it Sleeper's Tomb seems to be locked with no use atm. Maybe we wake that bitch up from it's slumber.

A lot of good ideas posted but I just ask that it not be retardedly hard to break in but at the same time don't give into all the piss and moans to gimp it up because we can't gear up over the weekend.

If someone wants to sell a buttload of SLS to pay the toons way up let them. Can't say it's an easy way to the top as farming that many SLS makes most of us suicidal. I'm pretty sure there are plenty of us who are needing a SLS mule and the EZ economy could use them.

[Darpey]

I played 6 days a week and 14+ hours a day.

It boils down to this:
Should EZ T10 cater exclusively to this crowd

-or-

should it accomodate the "moderate" players (2-3 hours per day hardly seems moderate to me, but relative to some players it seems to be that way) while also (of course) benefitting the truly hardcore.

I am in the latter camp... T10 should be HARDCORE, hard as Hell... but should not require numerous megagrinds (e.g. 6 UW 11's, 6 UC3s, etc...)

[WatchYouDie]

T10 should be hard. weeks of a hardcore player is what it should prob take to get the 1st toon done and after that it will get easier.

Progression server:
Hard up front= easier on the back end

So how to negate the UW why not do something in the script that says if toonx is attacking boss x with uw(x-y) Then boss gets 10-50% mid buff? this way there will still be a boost but can scale.

This has pretty much been a solo server. I know people do play together but that is pretty rare. I think it should keep up on that scale.

[Chunka]

I see a lot of "I dont have the time for that!". Fine. Then dont. This is the same ....stuff I hear from people in other MMO's...and what drove one company to make it so that you can now pretty much recite your name correctly and just skip 90 levels.

Fuck that.

Look, getting to the World Series requires time, effort, sacrifice. You dont hear guys in an after work neighborhood softball league bitching about how "unfair" it is that they cant play those 7 games, too.

Because that would be ridiculous.

And dont get me wrong.....I am anymore an EXTREMELY casual player. It took me forever to get where I am....and this will mean I will probably either never get past T10 here or it will take a very long time.

I'm fine with that. Just as I was fine with not being able to run end game raid content live when I didnt have the time to dedicate to doing what it took to be end game ready. But if we arent making these cutting edge end game zones specifically with the dedicated end game player in mind, then whats the point? If we're just adding more content for people to semi afk their way through, then fine, lets call that "added casual bullshit 207" and NOT call it T10.

End game should be end game. It should be cutting edge. It should be hard, and it should take time. While I'm not sure about a lot of what Fugi posted, I have to say I think he's on the right track, here. MAKE THIS SHIT HARD! Make it something that requires a while zerging to figure shit out....same as it was when most of us raided live. Thats the only was it will have longevity. Its the only way to keep people coming back to play EZ.

[Chunka]

As for the UW issue....

If you dont see that the REAL epic on EZ is the UW then you're deluding yourself. Its not mandatory, no.....but epics werent really mandatory live, either. They just made your odds of success one hell of a lot higher. To ignore that fact and NOT tune T10 content with heavy UW in mind is silly.

[Darinow]

It has to be re-re hard, hard doesn't have to mean long winded but has to be challenging some examples (will edit later)
- Massive debuffs
- NPCs that cast some form of Muting spell
- Places where all buffs are stripped
- NPC casting some sorta zone teleportations to the players or raids
- Zone repop (from Boss)
- Some type of "Help me mode" (Boss calls every mob within XXXX distance)
- Factions where if you choose to kill this, IT will take a long time to repair and you will have to repair it cause you need something that they give too.
- Task driven for any Boss Kills and Loot awards (gotta participate to get geared)
- Make it so 1 player cannot solo(self group or self raid) there i.e. events happening that that player cannot manage his/her toons to be successful.
- Make it so the free waypoint click does not work for T10 for the 1st 6 months ( there is instances but will cost ya like the millions I spent on T6 instancing)
- Triggers and massive wave fights
- Aggro triggers on boss fights ( some form of meh, F your DPS.. or F your healers..) if Im a mob and sitting there fighting a raid force and this warrior isn't going down.. cause I see this dumpy ass dwarf cleric healing him.. I'm going to put 2 and 2 together and smash that dwarf.
- HP/Resists/DPS/AC/Healing gut checks or some variety of them from Boss to Boss.
- No Double Loot in this zone 1st 6 months
- No safe area ( zone out if you want to afk)

[Darpey]

I think everyone is more on the same page than Fugi and Chunka think... I think...

Everyone is saying it should be hard... Most people would probably say that if you don't have a UW10+, it should be practically impossible (at least in terms of efficiency)

What I am saying, that I HOPE nobody is saying, is that we shouldn't have some sort of DPS check that requires you to have MORE than one UW11... that's where I draw the line

I think having three UW11's should benefit you, as it of course would. To have some DPS check that requires it? that's impractical and asking too much with the way that the UW is currently set up.

Assuming that nobody is saying that you should NEED to have multiple UW11's to complete T10, then I think most people are on the same page.

You can make T10 hellishly hard without making it hard because of having to have a certain amount of DPS, that's a weak way to make a zone "hard"...

There are a thousand other ways to make T10 hard that don't include making sure that you have 4 UW11's to kill the supermegaboss.

See Fugi's list for a lot of good ideas a few posts up from here... I also think a quest similar to CG/FG/EoN would be cool to incorporate, like the actual Epic Quest...

[Chunka]

maybe this will help some.

A lot of players here seem to think that just because I do some wiki work and took the time to write up a guide that I'm somehow a beastly end game player.

Hardly! Ask my guildmates in Ctrl Alt Elite and now in Focus Hope: I afk a LOT, I am pretty gimp and I take forever to do shit. People I helped introduce to the server.....people I helped get through T3 and T5 (many even in the last 6 months to a year).....they're farther along than I am now.

I usually log in. I answer the dozen or 3 tells I get....I listen to a handful of players who are pretty advanced and who talk shit with me (often tactics, game mechanics, issues, etc) bitch piss and moan about player X or current game issue Y. I then, if at work, minimize my screen for an hour or 3 and get some work done, while popping back in now and again to say hello....or to kill for another 15, 20 minutes. If I am at home, I kill some, then go afk for a while to help the wife with project X, or fix house issue Y, or help my mother, who is living with us atm and fighting with leukemia. On a normal day I am in game and AFK 2 or 3 times as much as I am active. Not an exaggeration.

But....when I AM here I get shit done, even if in 20 minute blocks. I advance, even if slowly. I'm NOT an elitist who's seeking to get more content for my playground; my main concern is the health and continued life of the game I love. Its why I spend so much time on the wiki....its why I help so many new players start here.

We need to see harder, more challenging content. We need it at the top tiers. We need to get back to having content that you genuinely have to struggle to even ENTER, let alone overcome. Thats been somewhat erased from EZ over the last year or two, and we've suffered for it. I'm hoping Hate and Akk will listen to this, agree, and adjust.

And I hope all of you will take a step back, take a hard, long look at the server and see why a lot of us feel this way.

[Chunka]

I had an idea.

Again, going back to limiting higher end UW in lower zones.....making for less purchasing your progression. Perhaps the 100 essence quest from say T5 on should only be available from an NPC IN those zones.

[warrior5]

T10 final zone (only accessible after the infinite grind of zone 1 and 2) takes place in Innothule Swamp, pub only zone for the first 6 months, and Jojoojojgogogogunaoguna http://wiki.project1999.com/Jojoojojgogogoguna is the ultimate boss.

Jojoojojgogogoguna requires multiple UW10+ to kill, and has a staggering amount of HP along with insane regen/heals. Basically requires more than 4 fully decked groups to kill. He spawns once per day, max, when someone shouts "KOBOLD!" in zone. Throws players around, debuffs etc.

However, upside is he drops 5 or more BPs / ultimate epic books (new thing to end epic augs?) or whatever when killed - allowing raids/guilds to split up the phat lewtz. Obviously DL would not apply here.

In addition to "takes forever," hard can also mean "uber raids required."  

Likes: Anything that encourages cooperation or is server-wide. Really hard bosses. Old zones in end game. Elite dps / hp checks and big raid encounters. Ancient Dragon. T1+T2. T6+. Outdoor zones. Mini dungeons. Multi-zone requirements. FG/CG, Siinge (if sceptre didn't suck), and EON type quests. PoT. Hushed Banquet. Halloween 2014.

Dislikes: .5 pages. Boss flags. Corals. Too much repetition or endless zone wandering. Shadow. T5. Small indoor dungeons. T3/4 tokens. Useless required epic augs. Poor loot for effort.

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