T10 Thoughts/Musings

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[Dimur]

I think before the discussion can really flesh itself out, we need to know what it is you are targeting T10 towards being.  Is this just another bump up and mob hp and dmg like previous tiers are currently set up or is this going to be a holy shit, you'd better be incredibly geared to zone in and have a hope to progress type zone?  If it's just a T9+1 upgrade then the ideas on content are going to differ substantially from if it's intended to be a true T10, end game or go home type of tier.

[Warbash]

We need to see harder, more challenging content. We need it at the top tiers. We need to get back to having content that you genuinely have to struggle to even ENTER, let alone overcome. Thats been somewhat erased from EZ over the last year or two, and we've suffered for it. I'm hoping Hate and Akk will listen to this, agree, and adjust.

And I hope all of you will take a step back, take a hard, long look at the server and see why a lot of us feel this way.

Chunka,
I liked a lot of what you said but this rang off to me. Not sure why, probably because you are using "we" and "us" which is a broad generality. But I think it's possible you could be right, maybe the server lost its way.

I'd like to see harder too, maybe go the way EQ went with group zones dropping group gear (boxing) and the better stuff actually required a raid of more than one person with game mechanics that require simultaneous input at different locations etc... Make it fun, challenging and rewarding. make it a grind to a certain degree but not the only thing.

In retrospect, I liked T5 but hate the water. T6 was ok just boring specially doing UC2. T7 with all the running around was just silly. I could clear all the mobs in about 90 minutes then would spend another 90 minutes chasing named back and forth. I just broke into T8 and am half way done with my 1st UC3 so still loving T8 plus I just love the zone, reminds me of my monk days pulling . Back tracking some, dislike the tokens and really disliked the .5 page gathering.

[Kaid]

I'm sort of a middle of the road "end game" player. I don't have max ring, earring, UW (it is UWX, so that is at least close). I was still able to burn through T9 at a rate of one toon per day. So at two weeks in, my whole crew had their full set of armor/accessories and 9.0 epic. I was also able to max out shield and my NS augs. I don't use any FS augs; so, other than farming 100 essences for UW, I was done. Now I just can't bring myself to go back there.

T10, as Dimur, Fugitive, Chunka and Blarr have said, NEEDS to be HARD. Period.

Fugi had some awesome suggestions on how to do that.

I love the idea of a task driven gear system, but it has to be a very long task. I don't want to be able to complete the task in a day or two and get my whole crew a piece of gear.

I'd love to just play my rogue, cleric or druid once in a while, so I also love the idea of events that are physically impossible to box your way through. Think Vishimtar, where every so often a random person, not at the top of the hate list (tank having to run away to get cured is the suck) gets a debuff that they have to talk to an NPC to get cured. If they don't, they die and so many adds spawn that it wipes the raid. These events could flag your character to request a group task to backflag the rest of your crew (another long task). The backflag shouldn't flag you to request the backflag task, only the next set of tasks. One to three of this type of event would be optimal. Make it the first one(s) in the tier, and until you complete it/them, or the group backflag task, you can't request any tasks that reward you with gear. If three tasks, one could flag you for epic, one for armor, one for accessories. Or just one task flags you to speak with an NPC who has tasks for all three.

Free waypoint not working and no double loot - excellent ideas. Though if all gear is obtained through tasks, I'm not sure if double loot would affect that.

It's late and I'm tired. I'll post more later.

[Raygan]

I think since this is a box server trying to have raids is going to be a tough sell.  I like having my crew and working on them...not having to depend on others is both a blessing and a curse it seems.

[Raygan]

people complained about the random armor drop from dragons in t8...but that was certainly a way to curtail people gearing up in a few hours 

[Ponzi]

Lot of good ideas in here. I don't have a ton of do's, just a couple don'ts.

--Don't involve the task system at all, fer chrissakes. We can only ostrich our heads into the sand for so long. As an unstable crutch for casual gamers it's done what it intended to do. It certainly hasn't been reliable enough to be part of any progression content.

--Don't bring large mobs and uneven ground into the fray. I can shred any zone on this server and still only have a single UCv3 because of the goddamn guardian wurms disappearing under the world making taking out WW pulls a nightmare in t8. Hell, if t10 was an open zone like t5/t6/t7/t9 I'd suggest putting an alternate form of UC3 in there. Just somewhere with level land where we can tackle big pulls legitly. Even Housegarden would suffice for that. I clear t9 strictly to acquire essences to trade down for ToV essences. That's just.. well, WRONG. But necessary.

-- Don't worry too much about scripts. Scripts are just something we delight in breaking and shortcutting and hardly ever do anything other than annoy people new to the zone. This isn't a server where people control 2-4 toons and can handle delegating parts of an encounter to 6-7 living breathing people in the same guild. I've seen some amazing stuff on other Servers (Trevious and Kayen are maniacal geniuses at it) but on a true boxing server a lot of it doesnt translate, especially with the high math 5million HP toons are routinely bogged down by.

-- Don't splatter our processors with 1,000 mobs on a 2 min repop in a wide open zone we need to log 12+ toons in for. I really dug the idea of multiple side tiers for epics/augs/armor/etc. Just something closer to a few zones of really angry tacvi as opposed to a super populated t7/t9.

-- Do whatever the heck you want. Just do it. Give us another couple months and Rymo won't be the only one closing in on a 6box of UWs.

[Rent Due]

Im warming up to the idea of working with others to complete a portion of your armor/gearing tasks

much like the idea of having to talk to an npc or wipe the raid

however, I think if we should go this way it should be in a group setting, not a raid setting. That way we would all have a chance to do it in times of low server population. IE: you play your cleric, ill play my rogue, grab a warrior, someone bring their enchanter, etc. since we all have a ton of classes to choose from I think this could be easily accomplished at any given time.

basically make it like an individual flag type requirement to progress, but done in a group setting, not a raid. have a zone set aside that is ISP limited to 1 per ISP, pretty sure that can be done, I think.

[Drep]

How about making 2 new zones.   1st zone- t10-  to keep the progression server progressing for the whole server.   2nd zone with super super hard stuff for those couple guilds with 50 UW's.     They can do both zones then as the rest of the server gears in the servers normal progression, maybe one day they can pop over to the 2nd zone and try it.

What's going to be hard for the few hardcore with mass amounts of boxes with UW's vrs Everyone else is going to be crazy different.

I think a lot you guys forgot that everything is only easy because this.  

My groups could only pretty much kill 1 or 2 things at a time our 1st time in t9.   Rezzing over and over.  The undead event at the zone in was and still is insanely hard.  Having to rez over and over and over...running back to kill a couple more before death again.     ....Vrs... Now that I have the tanks UW up to 9, he is able to stand there and handle much much much more.  

[Expletus]

Just caught up... holy shit. First of all there needs to be a decision made. Is EZ server a boxing server where you can log in and do what you need to do OR is EZ server a raiding server where you have set times and need others.

If it's a boxing server, multiple tasks, off tanking on the other side of the zone shit like that won't work except for a select few that do team up.

Think about the negatives. Raid times, ppl not showing up, canceling raid b/c lil billy didn't show up with his cleric. Fighting over loot, loot dkp, oye!

You can't flip the switch at T10 and say Oh hey btw you now require 3 tanks, 2 of which are off tanking on opposite sides of the zones and while you are doing that you need 50 ppl to beat on the main guy while singing mary poppins.

Ppl keep referencing "Live", "Like Live" well shit go play live then.

[Warbash]

Just caught up... holy shit. First of all there needs to be a decision made. Is EZ server a boxing server where you can log in and do what you need to do OR is EZ server a raiding server where you have set times and need others.

If it's a boxing server, multiple tasks, off tanking on the other side of the zone shit like that won't work except for a select few that do team up.

Think about the negatives. Raid times, ppl not showing up, canceling raid b/c lil billy didn't show up with his cleric. Fighting over loot, loot dkp, oye!

You can't flip the switch at T10 and say Oh hey btw you now require 3 tanks, 2 of which are off tanking on opposite sides of the zones and while you are doing that you need 50 ppl to beat on the main guy while singing mary poppins.

Ppl keep referencing "Live", "Like Live" well shit go play live then.

Good points Its fun to work with your guild members, best thing I ever did was leave my solo guild. I was not really implying needing full live raid like situations but to make it a little more difficult to where in the beginning you would need help from another boxer or something.

[Suddz]

have a boss that shouts a class, and only that class can land the killing blow, or boss DT's all players in zone =D

[Kaid]

--Don't involve the task system at all, fer chrissakes. We can only ostrich our heads into the sand for so long. As an unstable crutch for casual gamers it's done what it intended to do. It certainly hasn't been reliable enough to be part of any progression content.

We're not talking about the expedition system, we're talking about the task (quest) system that's been working properly for years. Think T5 100 bosses tasks.

however, I think if we should go this way it should be in a group setting, not a raid setting. That way we would all have a chance to do it in times of low server population. IE: you play your cleric, ill play my rogue, grab a warrior, someone bring their enchanter, etc. since we all have a ton of classes to choose from I think this could be easily accomplished at any given time.

basically make it like an individual flag type requirement to progress, but done in a group setting, not a raid. have a zone set aside that is ISP limited to 1 per ISP, pretty sure that can be done, I think.

I wasn't really clear on that in my first post, I totally agree that a single group is the way to go there. Trying to get many more people than that at one time would be like pulling teeth. And for the second part, it should also flag you for a backflag task, so you only have to do it once. So if you play your rogue for the group task to start the teir, he can then backflag the rest of your crew and they could all progress.

have a boss that shouts a class, and only that class can land the killing blow, or boss DT's all players in zone =D

Now that is a great idea!

[Kwai]

Having a boss shout a class works until you get to "MAGE"... and think, dayhem... I need to level one.

[Kwai]

I like the one group challenge idea, but not for progression.  Maybe a side quest that you can choose to do or not.

Expletus said it better.  You don't suddenly flip the switch at T10 and say we are no longer a boxing server.  The real gut check for EZ Server is MQ2/ISABoxer.  Those who can are here and those who cannot are on other servers.  Let's not suddenly decide to change the format because someone had a wild idea.  And.. be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

[hateborne]

I like the one group challenge idea, but not for progression.  Maybe a side quest that you can choose to do or not.

Expletus said it better.  You don't suddenly flip the switch at T10 and say we are no longer a boxing server.  The real gut check for EZ Server is MQ2/ISABoxer.  Those who can are here and those who cannot are on other servers.  Let's not suddenly decide to change the format because someone had a wild idea.  And.. be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

I'm not going to suddenly change what EZ has always been. There is no fear of that. :-)


-Hate

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