Post-T10 Grocery List! 12-2-15

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[Stikkan]

I'd like to see more bonuses to frenzy, flying kick, kick, throw, bard instruments, and stuff.  Lot of abilities to help our slaying that don't really scale with content the way it is.  Rogues have weapons with bonus backstab damage.  Could we not add bonus damage stats like that to weapons for more classes?  If so, then UW could provide a large boost for frenzy and flying kick so that dpsers can see those abilities actually making an effect.  Is there a way to boost cyclone blade damage as well?  That effect constantly goes off for insignificant damage while sometimes significant lag.
A lot of items have attack bonuses while attack doesn't seem to move much past 2000 and if it does its because of heroic stats.  At the moment, I am 2760 with UW11 and earring25, items with much bonus attack that doesn't affect anything.  Attack as I knew it in regular EQ helped you deal more of your damage potential in each swing as it scales vs ac or something like that.  So it was amazingly important to help dpsers attack and not hit for 1/10th their max damage over and over again.  I see this happen often and if attack is changed then we'd see more consistent numbers that scale with increasing ac.
Additionally, there are many items with attack speed bonuses or buffs, or both, like the berserker overhate item from airplane.  Reworking these so that we actually get useful bonuses instead of tons of attack speed that doesn't make us any faster sounds like it could provide a nice boost and rework to help with things.  Also if buffs like this, ranger super secrets, and such had similar durations... that would be super sexy.
Some ideas about UW.  First, I wanted to mention that the proc damage on UW hasn't been scaled to match new proc damage on strike augs below UW9.  And mainly, I find that UW is lackluster for casters (although pets with it is cool) in regards to boosting their nukes.  Since casters aren't autoattacking for nearly as much dmg as a melee class with same UW, additonal bonuses like doublecast or triplecast would make casters more appealing.  Another idea is to boost magic damage significantly on 1 UW weapon that all casters can use, or more than 1 weapon choice.  Otherwise, could have additonal effects like % evocation/alteration etc for casters.

[Kruciel]

ALL TANK CLASSES:

• Re-evalute stonewall amounts per class, stonewall on pets, and stonewall from buffs.
• Bring maximum possible to ~35-40%

I think this would be an opportune time to take stonewall + halloween pets out of the equation entirely. There is no reason to balance content around people needing a once-a-year drop going forward, especially with the chance to remove this clunky necessity while reworking stonewalls.

Some idea of a model I could see for this would be:

Stone Monster - 0% stonewall + 50k HP
Insane Goblin - 0% stonewall + 150k HP (edit: nevermind, warriors will just use mistress of flame over these. maybe they could proc runes or something)
Arcing Demon - remove (Max HP +5%) or everyone and their mother will just swap to using this

Epic 3.5 -- 4% stonewall
Epic 4.0 --- 6% stonewall
Epic 4.5 --- 8% stonewall
Epic 5.0 --- 10% stonewall
Epic 5.5 --- 12% stonewall
Epic 6.0 --- 14% stonewall
Epic 7.0 --- 16% stonewall and HP + 25,000
Epic 8.0 --- 18% stonewall and HP +50,000
Epic 9.0 --- 20% stonewall and HP + 75,000
Epic 10.0 --- 22% stonewall and HP + 100,000

Shield 1-5 --- 1% stonewall
Shield 6-10 --- 2% stonewall
Shield 11-15 --- 3% stonewall
Shield 16-20 --- 4% stonewall
Shield 21-25 --- 5% stonewall
Shield 26-30 --- 6% stonewall
Shield 31-35 --- 7% stonewall
Shield 36-40 --- 8% stonewall
Shield 41-45 --- 9% stonewall
Shield 46-50 --- 10% stonewall
Shield 51-55 --- 11% stonewall
Shield 56-60 --- 12% stonewall

Max Stonewall currently would be 34%, which leaves room for more in the future. Also, Vie line could be left untouched. It would let the cleric temporarily give you 44% stonewall, which is great sure, but the reason it is over the top amazing right now, is because warriors are taking 22% of normal mob swings. When a cleric puts Vie3 on us, we take 12% of normal mob swings. So right now, Vie3 is a 50% damage reduction for us. In the new model listed above, you would go from taking 66% of the mob's damage down to 56%.

Old model (78% stonewall) --- mob swings at warrior for 10,000,000 damage, he takes 2,200,000 damage. With Vie3, he takes 1,200,000 damage.
New model (34% stonewall) --- mob swings at warrior for 3,300,000 damage, he takes 2,178,000 damage. With Vie3, he takes 1,848,000 damage.

So yeah, the reason Vie3 is absolutely nuts right now, is going from 78% to 88% stonewall is muchhhh different than 34% to 44%  

P.S. I still think Clerics could use a custom DI spell  maybe it could be their epic instead of the raid-wide heal thingy.

[Leis]

With that change clerics would be the new pallys, everyone would have one. The mobs would be tuned to work with Vie3 at 44%. If we go to something like that we should set the stone monster to 8% and the insane goblin to 10% but hard cap it at 44% so people have a choice on what to use.

[Kruciel]

Umm no? Vie3 would be nothing compared to what it is now. You cannot have it up full time. At the moment, I use it at the begnning of the pull while the most damage is headed at my warrior. After it fades, it basically remains on cooldown until the pull is over. Right now, it is allowing me to do absolutely insane pulls in t10. Going from 34% to 44% temporarily with the new model would barely be noticeable.

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion of "they'll be the new pallies" when the current model right now has them as THE most important healer on your team and the "changed model" would kick them down.

Check the #s again:

78% to 88% stonewall (almost 50% less damage taken) this is live RIGHT NOW
34% to 44% stonewall (almost 15% less damage taken) this would be the new

Vie is a temporary buff with a long cooldown. If necessary, just make the cooldown longer so it's one useage per pull. You could also make it apply a debuff upon fading to block this from being cast on you again for 5 minutes (in case you say oh i'll just level 6 clerics)

[Kruciel]

There are pulls in t10 that deal so much damage, they aren't even remotely possible without a cleric, so pally has already been replaced in terms of the top spot. To be honest this is what my tank healing breakdown looks like in t10:

Pull mobs with drake >
vie3 absorbs about 50,000,000 damage in the 18 seconds it is active > pally baby heals the rest
if 10+ mobs alive still, then riposte sunglasses
if 10+ mobs alive still, then redo drake
if 10+ mobs alive still, start spamming patch heals with DRU SHM CLR, if more than one of the hard hitter type mobs are still alive at this point you are dead.

Pally heals rampages, that is all he does. He has nothing to do with your warrior surviving the onslaught thrown at him here. Even if you brought 3 pallies, it wouldn't be enough to heal you through the big pulls.

[Leis]

Thats a problem with the tier, not my point. You say it should be balanced around not having it, but we can already see from T10 thats not how its done here. New content is based on the best you can have prior to it. You shouldn't need one specific class, nor should you need a raid force to progress.

We need more options for who we use, not a cookie cutter setup.

[Kruciel]

You seemed to miss the point entirely though, which is the new model would be a significant nerf to how strong cleric is. It almost seemed like you thought it was a buff to clerics by saying "With that change clerics would be the new pallys" when they already are the new pallys.

Every healer will have their own niche in every mmo ever made. If they were all uniform there'd be no point in having classes. Clerics are required now, new system they wouldn't be.

Cleric: aoe heals are complete crap, vie line provides a temporary mitigation buff, has the strongest single target tank heal
Druid: aoe heals non-existant, drake line provides reactive healing, medium single target heal
Shaman: aoe heals non-existant, has plenty of buffs + epic click + epic proc + aoe nuke, medium single target heal
Pally: aoe heal king, incredibly durable, no single target heals.

So, as you can see, they all have their uses. No matter what system, past or present, classes are going to have different strengths and weaknesses, but you're right: making 1 required is bad. Bottom line is, the stonewall reduction would bring clerics to that level of being "unique" and not "required" as they are now.

Edit: Cleric and Druid would still be the preferred tank healers regardless,they have always been. Druid was king for years and years and finally saw a much needed nerf. With warrior stonewalls climbing higher and higher over the years, now cleric has filled the shoes of the old druid, increasing stonewalls to absurd high amounts. Even if Vie gets reduced in strength, they are still worth a small army of paladins in terms of how fast they can spam their single target heal into the warrior.

[Leis]

I understand your point about it reducing the effective reduction amount. Yes everyone has some advantages and disadvantages. We both know there are people who will run multiple clerics in that setup for the CD's.

We nerfed the hell out of drake because it made druids the uncontested best healer, but you could use pallys or clerics before the nerf. From what your saying right now you need a cleric, everything else is filler.

I still see those who can making a cleric or 4 to keep the buff up constantly for that 44%, and the mobs being set at a difficulty that requires that.

[Kruciel]

For some reason, typing that just made me notice something else.

Pally has a self 25% stonewall --- Kaldar's Helping Hand II
Cleric has a self 25% stonewall + self DI --- Holy Blessing of Intervention
Druid has a self 15% stonewall --- Form of the Werewolf II

But the one of the two healers who wants to be in melee range attacking and casting has nothing   soooo let's get some:

Shaman 15% stonewall --- Form of the Black Wolf (t5)
Shaman 25% stonewall --- Form of the White Wolf (t8)

Screw bears, they're too big.

And obviously all of the stonewalls on these would come down as well to match the damage output of the new system.

[Kruciel]

I still see those who can making a cleric or 4 to keep the buff up constantly for that 44%, and the mobs being set at a difficulty that requires that.

If people wanted to make 6 druids and spam drake, they could do that too. Hunter knew this which is why he couldn't come up with any reasonable way of fixing the problem. I actually suggested a few things to him in emails long ago and he replied with "yeah, then people will just make 2 druids, or 3 druids". I think the way Hate ended up nerfing it fits perfectly. If you wanted to make 3 druids and 3 clerics you've always had the option. This change has absolutely nothing to do with that subject and is a very silly tangent to focus on vs the big picture of stonewalls.

As for the "mobs being set at a difficulty that requires that" part. The reason we're in the state we're in now is this: Clerics and Druids are so god damn broken when combined with a 78% stonewall the only thing Hate could do to provide challenging content and stop warriors from training half the zone around was to make mobs hit so insanely hard you had to stop, pull as few as you could, and rotate as many mitigation tools on your tank while selectively focusing down the deadliest mobs after learning which mobs those are. The "t10 experience" has been incredibly fun, but at the end of the day I know it's broken because I watch team after team after team wipe and die all over the zone while I'm on cruise control at this point.

[Leis]

Mini bears? I think druids already have a white/black wolf set from the new aa's. /shrug

I brought up druids to point out that even broken they were not the only option. I agree that the stonewall issue was part of the reason we are in this mess but its also because Hate is trying to give people who had nothing to do for far to long a challenge.

[brixu]

Please improve Monk Epic debuff almost no improvement as it progresses

[Fuzzypoodle]

Well I guess I will toss out 2 cents...

What would be really nice is a way to farm all the ess, sls, eon, gsoa, stone, leaf, berries. Then the exp for EoA and RoA with your team.  What would be cool is an expedition sytem that would allow t10 flagged toons to do for tier ess. ie. Legends of Qvic and so forth.  The expedition could be kill x for berries but farmed over and over for ess and the other items needed.  This would allow us to farm everything we need but have the raid there for exp.

I have not had my raid in much this year since I was farming 5 uws and when I think about the rest of my raid .. I sorta feel like screw it live qvic - t5 til I have 12 more toons done ... then I can run my raid and gather more across my toons than just one guy always.

Just hate how much time is spent to solo low lvl content versus having a way to farm those tiers with your raid and get items like ess, sls's eon's, gsoa, and so on.

[WatchYouDie]

I think should just do a 50% reduction of stonewall across the board on all spells set cap at like 38% ... this way we would end up with about the same setup for spells etc have room for growth and will me minimum effect on play.

[Darpey]

I think should just do a 50% reduction of stonewall across the board on all spells set cap at like 38% ... this way we would end up with about the same setup for spells etc have room for growth and will me minimum effect on play.

I like this idea, of reducing stonewall at a constant percentage (if it is to be reduced) - so that there wouldn't be a dramatic shift in classes.

However, a top-tier Warrior currently has a non-buffed stonewall of 78% (Epic 7.0+, SoA 51+, IG Pet). Admittedly, this is quite a bit. Changing that down to 39% (half of 78) would not double the damage a Warrior would take, it would nearly triple it (270% of the current damage taken, or a 170% increase)

When a warrior gets hit for x with x% stonewall:

orig dmg - SW% - newdmg
1000dmg - 0% - 1000dmg
1000dmg - 78% - 220dmg
1000dmg - 39% - 610dmg

Almost the same as cutting a Warrior's health by 64%.

Just throwin' that out there. Unless there is an alternate method of... something... to compensate for this - this would be a real big change to our tanks - both for T10, and for those that are struggling through the lower tiers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the same way that adding a small amount of Stonewall to our Warriors sounds small, but it's actually HUGE.

@ 78% stonewall, adding just 10% doesn't give 10% reduction, it actually gives 45% reduction, relative to the 78% stonewall.

78% stonewall means a warrior only takes 22% of the original damage
88% stonewall means a warrior only takes 12% of the original damage

1000 original damage - 78% stonewall - 220 damage
1000 original damage - 88% stonewall - 120 damage
^ a 45% decrease

All that to say, weird things happen when you have stonewall near the ceiling, like we currently do with our warriors.

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